From radlickk at gr-jug.org  Wed Jan  4 12:56:33 2006
From: radlickk at gr-jug.org (Ken Radlick)
Date: Wed Jan  4 12:30:01 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Welcome to a new year at GR-JUG
Message-ID: <43BC0C51.2070800@gr-jug.org>

Hello again and Happy (belated) New Year. I hope that your New Year is 
off to good start.

Personally I think this will be a big year for me and I hope that the 
GR-JUG and all of it's members are a part of this. 

One resolution that I actually started last year that I plan to keep up 
in 2006 is updating the GR-JUG homepage with current information 
including the next meeting topic, date, time and location. In addition, 
it will be the place to keep track of upcoming meeting topics. My goal 
is to keep four (4) months of upcoming topics.  This is being done by 
adding a new topic at each meeting but if you can't make the meeting 
drop me a line or post a topic suggestion to the mailing list 
(especially if you are willing to present this topic).  In case it's 
been a while since you were at our page on the web it is at 
http://gr-jug.org and it doesn't look flashy but I hoping to ensure that 
it has current information.

As always your thoughts/ideas and your help to make the GR-JUG better 
are always appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing everyone in January (if you need to know when 
the meeting is go to http://gr-jug.org)

Ken
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From radlickk at gr-jug.org  Tue Jan 24 11:39:26 2006
From: radlickk at gr-jug.org (Ken Radlick)
Date: Tue Jan 24 11:11:52 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] between meeting update
Message-ID: <43D6583E.4070804@gr-jug.org>

Hello everyone,

I would encourage you to look at the web site however I would like to 
share the note that I posted there with you:

 Welcome to GR-JUG's home page.

At our last meeting, Jeremy shared JSF and what I thought was a pretty 
cool tool for creating JSF based apps.

With the Superbowl coming up which is being hosted in our great state, I 
thought we could get in the spirit of the event and also recognize one 
of our members who has done much to further our knowledge.  I would like 
to present the GR-JUG MVP (most valuable programmer)  for 2005/2006 to 
Jeremy G. Jeremy has presented twice in past three months and is on the 
schedule for two more presentations in the next four months. On behalf 
of myself and GR-JUG we would like to say thank you for being willing to 
share new or old knowledge with us.

Our next meeting is February 16 where Carlus will be sharing Appfuse 
which from what I've read can really jump start a development project.

Below is the calendar for the next 4 months. If you have ideas for 
future presentations please send me an e-mail (radlickk@gr-jug.org).You 
do not have to be an expert on a topic to give a presentation.  For one 
of my presentations, I read the Hibernate Developer's Notebook 
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hibernate/> and based my presentation it..

Unfortunately I will not personally be at the next meeting (however 
Carlus said he will share his notes with me), so I will see all of you 
in March.  Before then I encourage you to e-mail me 
(radlickk@gr-jug.org) and utilize our mailing list 
<http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug>.  Ken.
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From radlickk at gr-jug.org  Mon Jan 30 16:27:02 2006
From: radlickk at gr-jug.org (Ken Radlick)
Date: Mon Jan 30 15:59:38 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [Fwd: J2EE SIG - An invitation to join us!]
Message-ID: <43DE84A6.3030307@gr-jug.org>

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share this with everyone in case someone was interested.

Ken.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	J2EE SIG - An invitation to join us!
Date: 	Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:36:57 -0800
From: 	J2EE SIG <j2eesig@gmail.com>
To: 	<radlickk@gr-jug.org>



Dear Coordinator,

We would like to invite you and your JUG members to join this newly 
formed J2EE Special Interest Group. The mission of this collaborative 
SIG, co-sponsored by OAUG, ODTUG, IOUG and Oracle Corporation, is to 
promote and improve J2EE applications development, deployment & 
management using Oracle products. This goal will be achieved through the 
following activities:

    * Educating members and non-members through participation at
      conferences, industry events and user-group activities, as well as
      through publishing of technical articles;
    * Conducting an open exchange of ideas between SIG members; and
    * Acting as a communication channel between the user community and
      Oracle?s product development.

To join the J2EE SIG:

   1. Send an email message to listguru@fatcity.com
      <mailto:listguru@fatcity.com>
   2. In the message body put: SUBCRIBE ODTUG-JAVA-L <real name>
   3. Replace <real name> with your full name (not your email address)

For additional information, please visit the J2EE SIG website 
<http://www.odtug.com/2005_j2EE.htm>. We would really appreciate it if 
you include a link to our webpage on your JUG website. Thank you.

Sincerely,

J2EE SIG Steering Committee


From reminders at reply.yahoo.com  Thu Mar  9 15:25:09 2006
From: reminders at reply.yahoo.com (Yahoo! Reminder)
Date: Fri Mar 10 07:33:39 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] topic Subversion - Meeting at
	Calvin College, 3/16/2006, 6:30 pm
Message-ID: <200603092256.k29Mujt0018755@gr-jug.org>

 Reminder from the Calendar of grandrapidsjavausersgroup
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal

topic Subversion - Meeting at Calvin College
Thursday March 16, 2006
6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
(This event does not repeat.)
(The next reminder for this event will be sent in 6 days, 12 hours, 4 minutes.)
Event Location: Calvin College North Hall 253
City, State, Zip: Grand Rapids, MI

Notes:
Please join us as Jeremy leads a discussion on Subversion.


Set up birthday reminders!
 http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal?v=9&evt_type=13

Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From radlickk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 10 05:16:26 2006
From: radlickk at yahoo.com (Ken Radlick)
Date: Fri Mar 10 07:47:04 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug]  topic correction>> Portals/portlets - Meeting at Calvin
	College, 3/16/2006, 6:30 pm
In-Reply-To: <200603092256.k29Mujt0018755@gr-jug.org>
Message-ID: <20060310131626.51335.qmail@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,

I didn't remember to change the description after our
scheduling changes. So our topic this month is really
portals and portlets. Sorry for the confusion.

Ken R

--- Yahoo! Reminder <reminders@reply.yahoo.com> wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on unsubscription/customizing your
> preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> >  Reminder from the Calendar of
> grandrapidsjavausersgroup
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal
> 
> topic Subversion - Meeting at Calvin College
> Thursday March 16, 2006
> 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
> (This event does not repeat.)
> (The next reminder for this event will be sent in 6
> days, 12 hours, 4 minutes.)
> Event Location: Calvin College North Hall 253
> City, State, Zip: Grand Rapids, MI
> 
> Notes:
> Please join us as Jeremy leads a discussion on
> Subversion.
> 
> 
> Set up birthday reminders!
> 
>
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal?v=9&evt_type=13
> 
> Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
>  http://www.yahoo.com
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> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 


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From reminders at reply.yahoo.com  Thu Mar 16 03:25:29 2006
From: reminders at reply.yahoo.com (Yahoo! Reminder)
Date: Thu Mar 16 07:13:38 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] topic Subversion - Meeting at
	Calvin College, 3/16/2006, 6:30 pm
Message-ID: <200603161056.k2GAuTt0022371@gr-jug.org>

 Reminder from the Calendar of grandrapidsjavausersgroup
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal

topic Subversion - Meeting at Calvin College
Thursday March 16, 2006
6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
(This event does not repeat.)
Event Location: Calvin College North Hall 253
City, State, Zip: Grand Rapids, MI

Notes:
Please join us as Jeremy leads a discussion on Subversion.


Set up birthday reminders!
 http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal?v=9&evt_type=13

Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From radlickk at gr-jug.org  Thu Mar 16 15:54:45 2006
From: radlickk at gr-jug.org (Ken Radlick)
Date: Thu Mar 16 15:25:24 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] wanted new leader for GR-JUG
Message-ID: <4419D095.503@gr-jug.org>

Hello fellow GR-JUG members.

 It is with sadness that I must tell you that I need to resign as the 
leader of the GR-JUG.  Right now I have a several great challenges in my 
life and I do not feel that I have time to be able to lead the JUG.  
Right now I may not be able to attend the meetings either, which I 
something I won't be able to do tonight (3/16), but hopefully will be 
able to do at some point.  I hope to be somewhat involved and help when 
and where I can.

Turning over the leadership role saddens me since I feel that I was just 
beginning to get some things in place like a rolling schedule and 
updating the web site (except this month).  

However, I know this is what I need to do right now.

So I would ask for volunteers who would be willing to take over and 
guide the JUG.  This need not take a great deal of time.  And I would 
tell you all the GR-JUG details that you would need.

Sincerely,

Ken Radlick


From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Mon Mar 20 13:06:31 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Mon Mar 20 12:40:58 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] wanted new leader for GR-JUG
Message-ID: <"H000090601306c94.1142877990.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

Since the winds of change are upon us, I was wondering if we could possibly change the meeting schedule.  I travel about 40-45 minutes to work and back everyday so it would be nice to have the meeting a little earlier, possibly around 5:30 instead of 6:30.  Also, how about changing the day to Tuesday or Wednesday?

While I would like to volunteer to be the GR-JUG leader, the late time the meeting currently is at is putting a strain on my family life.  If were earlier, I might be able to swing it.

JG


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Radlick [mailto:radlickk@gr-jug.org] 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:55 PM
To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List
Subject: [GR-Jug] wanted new leader for GR-JUG

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------
Hello fellow GR-JUG members.

 It is with sadness that I must tell you that I need to resign as the 
leader of the GR-JUG.  Right now I have a several great challenges in my 
life and I do not feel that I have time to be able to lead the JUG.  
Right now I may not be able to attend the meetings either, which I 
something I won't be able to do tonight (3/16), but hopefully will be 
able to do at some point.  I hope to be somewhat involved and help when 
and where I can.

Turning over the leadership role saddens me since I feel that I was just 
beginning to get some things in place like a rolling schedule and 
updating the web site (except this month).  

However, I know this is what I need to do right now.

So I would ask for volunteers who would be willing to take over and 
guide the JUG.  This need not take a great deal of time.  And I would 
tell you all the GR-JUG details that you would need.

Sincerely,

Ken Radlick


_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


From radlickk at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 21 07:34:30 2006
From: radlickk at yahoo.com (Ken Radlick)
Date: Tue Mar 21 10:04:47 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] possible meeting day/time change for GR-JUG????
In-Reply-To: <"H000090601306c94.1142877990.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>
Message-ID: <20060321153430.10808.qmail@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I wouldn't be opposed to changing the meeting date and
time. Right now Tuesday's would actually work better
for me (maybe I would be able to attend after all). 
Also, an earlier time personally would probably be
better. 

I know people like to lurk but please, please send
your thoughts/comments/ideas on this important issue.

Also, we would have to talk with someone at Calvin to
find out if we could get our room or another room on
the new date and time or we would have to look at a
different location.

Anyway that's my $0.05 (inflation).

Ken Radlick

--- jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on unsubscription/customizing your
> preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> Since the winds of change are upon us, I was
> wondering if we could possibly change the meeting
> schedule.  I travel about 40-45 minutes to work and
> back everyday so it would be nice to have the
> meeting a little earlier, possibly around 5:30
> instead of 6:30.  Also, how about changing the day
> to Tuesday or Wednesday?
> 
> While I would like to volunteer to be the GR-JUG
> leader, the late time the meeting currently is at is
> putting a strain on my family life.  If were
> earlier, I might be able to swing it.
> 
> JG
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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From JeAnderson at IKON.com  Tue Mar 21 09:54:41 2006
From: JeAnderson at IKON.com (Anderson, Jeremy)
Date: Tue Mar 21 10:24:59 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] possible meeting day/time change for GR-JUG????
Message-ID: <B0777F628FF0BD419C57135D87AC841F07DA4A09@HOU15-XMB-04.na.ikon.net>

If the meeting dates changed to Tuesdays I might be able to attend.
Right now I have classes on Wed & Thurs nights which is why I've not
been able to attend.

From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Mar 21 22:43:18 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Mar 21 22:13:41 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] possible meeting day/time change for GR-JUG????
In-Reply-To: <B0777F628FF0BD419C57135D87AC841F07DA4A09@HOU15-XMB-04.na.ikon.net>
References: <B0777F628FF0BD419C57135D87AC841F07DA4A09@HOU15-XMB-04.na.ikon.net>
Message-ID: <4420C7D6.5070307@brondsema.net>

Anderson, Jeremy wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> If the meeting dates changed to Tuesdays I might be able to attend.
> Right now I have classes on Wed & Thurs nights which is why I've not
> been able to attend.
>

Tuesdays are the only day that doesn't work for me, unfortunately.  But
it's not a big deal since I'll be free any day once summertime comes.
Any time in the evening is fine.

--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Mar 21 22:45:40 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Mar 21 22:15:59 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] wanted new leader for GR-JUG
In-Reply-To: <4419D095.503@gr-jug.org>
References: <4419D095.503@gr-jug.org>
Message-ID: <4420C864.5020806@brondsema.net>

Ken Radlick wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> Hello fellow GR-JUG members.
>
> It is with sadness that I must tell you that I need to resign as the
> leader of the GR-JUG.  Right now I have a several great challenges in my
> life and I do not feel that I have time to be able to lead the JUG.
> Right now I may not be able to attend the meetings either, which I
> something I won't be able to do tonight (3/16), but hopefully will be
> able to do at some point.  I hope to be somewhat involved and help when
> and where I can.
>
> Turning over the leadership role saddens me since I feel that I was just
> beginning to get some things in place like a rolling schedule and
> updating the web site (except this month).
> However, I know this is what I need to do right now.
>
> So I would ask for volunteers who would be willing to take over and
> guide the JUG.  This need not take a great deal of time.  And I would
> tell you all the GR-JUG details that you would need.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ken Radlick
>

I hope all goes well with your challenges.

I'd be willing to keep the website up to date, and maintain anything
else on the server (e.g. the mailing list).

--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Tue Mar 21 23:36:27 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Tue Mar 21 23:06:49 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] wanted new leader for GR-JUG
In-Reply-To: <4420C864.5020806@brondsema.net>
References: <4419D095.503@gr-jug.org> <4420C864.5020806@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <4420D44B.2010905@envoisolutions.com>

Hiya,
I used to attend a long time ago, but recently re discovered the list.  
I plan to start going again to the sessions, but if you are looking for 
speakers/topics, I'd be happy to do a night on web services, SOA, ESBs 
or some similar topic.

Also, wanted to chime in and say that monday/tuesdays post 5 PM work 
great for me.

Cheers,
- Dan

Dave Brondsema wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ken Radlick wrote:
>> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>> ------------------------------------------
>> Hello fellow GR-JUG members.
>>
>> It is with sadness that I must tell you that I need to resign as the
>> leader of the GR-JUG.  Right now I have a several great challenges in my
>> life and I do not feel that I have time to be able to lead the JUG.
>> Right now I may not be able to attend the meetings either, which I
>> something I won't be able to do tonight (3/16), but hopefully will be
>> able to do at some point.  I hope to be somewhat involved and help when
>> and where I can.
>>
>> Turning over the leadership role saddens me since I feel that I was just
>> beginning to get some things in place like a rolling schedule and
>> updating the web site (except this month).
>> However, I know this is what I need to do right now.
>>
>> So I would ask for volunteers who would be willing to take over and
>> guide the JUG.  This need not take a great deal of time.  And I would
>> tell you all the GR-JUG details that you would need.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Ken Radlick
>>
>
> I hope all goes well with your challenges.
>
> I'd be willing to keep the website up to date, and maintain anything
> else on the server (e.g. the mailing list).
>
> -- 
> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
>                <><
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From jdfrens at calvin.edu  Wed Mar 22 10:06:40 2006
From: jdfrens at calvin.edu (Jeremy D. Frens)
Date: Wed Mar 22 09:36:56 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] possible meeting day/time change for GR-JUG????
In-Reply-To: <20060321153430.10808.qmail@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060321153430.10808.qmail@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44216800.2000602@calvin.edu>

Ken Radlick wrote:
> Also, we would have to talk with someone at Calvin to
> find out if we could get our room or another room on
> the new date and time or we would have to look at a
> different location.

I'm pretty sure that North Hall 253 (at Calvin College) is open every
night of the week starting as early as 4:30pm.  And even if it is in
use, we'll find some other room.  Calvin has few evening classes.

As for time and day, I would be more inclined to go if the meetings were
earlier in the evening, and any night works fine for me.  If Tuesday is
appealing, I'd suggest avoiding the fourth Tuesday of the month since XP
West Michigan meets that night.

jdf

-- 
* Jeremy D. Frens * Professor, Computer Science * jdfrens@calvin.edu *
    ``FOUL!  I claim foul... I do agree with my claim.''
            -- Artie, the Strongest Man in the World,
	        _The Adventures of Pete & Pete_

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From kadams at gfs.com  Mon Mar 27 12:34:29 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Mon Mar 27 12:04:51 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] possible meeting day/time change for GR-JUG????
Message-ID: <s427dbea.053@mail2.gfs.com>

I would be able to attend meetings if it were moved up and changed to
Tuesday.

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Tue Apr 18 12:15:20 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Tue Apr 18 10:44:50 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Thursday
Message-ID: <"H000090601516fff.1145373320.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

I regret to inform everyone that I will be unable to give a presentation on Subversion this Thursday.  My family is down to one car at the moment so I have to car pool.

Also, has there been any further discussion/action on the meeting schedule?

From radlickk at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 19 11:17:15 2006
From: radlickk at yahoo.com (Ken Radlick)
Date: Wed Apr 19 12:46:26 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Thursday - 4/20 meeting cancelled
In-Reply-To: <"H000090601516fff.1145373320.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>
Message-ID: <20060419171715.13297.qmail@web33112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think it would be best to cancel the meeting on
Thursday (4/20).  I do not have an alternate topic so
lets shoot for next month (May).

Thanks,

Ken.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 14:55:49 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Apr 19 13:24:58 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: GRJUG...
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930604191001n2f60db30kcd94528378855400@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604190725s31b59da2s69d071a4980f8899@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20060419165807.4451.qmail@web33112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	 <f9688a930604191001n2f60db30kcd94528378855400@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930604191055k5bf9cfa8ra4f986b6e6c01848@mail.gmail.com>

All in all, it doesn't sound like there is a lot of interest for the
leadership position of the GRJUG.  I am very interested in helping, but I am
not going to kid myself into believing that I can do it on my own.  Instead,
it may be beneficial to try to get a small team lead the group.  I would be
interested in being part of a team to help with this group.

If you are interested in creating a team, please let me know.

Thanks
Carlus
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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Wed Apr 19 18:21:41 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Wed Apr 19 16:52:58 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: GRJUG...
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930604191055k5bf9cfa8ra4f986b6e6c01848@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604190725s31b59da2s69d071a4980f8899@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060419165807.4451.qmail@web33112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<f9688a930604191001n2f60db30kcd94528378855400@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9688a930604191055k5bf9cfa8ra4f986b6e6c01848@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4446A9E5.2090709@envoisolutions.com>

I'd be interested in helping. I haven't attended in a long while, but am 
looking to again. Maybe there could be a rotation?

- Dan

Carlus Henry wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> All in all, it doesn't sound like there is a lot of interest for the 
> leadership position of the GRJUG.  I am very interested in helping, 
> but I am not going to kid myself into believing that I can do it on my 
> own.  Instead, it may be beneficial to try to get a small team lead 
> the group.  I would be interested in being part of a team to help with 
> this group.
>
> If you are interested in creating a team, please let me know.
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 13:56:54 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Thu Apr 20 12:26:06 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Let's get moving....
Message-ID: <f9688a930604200956w62356556k1401722a0870dd61@mail.gmail.com>

>From what I can tell, one of the biggest challenges that we have as a group
is attendance.  Typically we only have a handful of people show up for the
meeting.  What can we do better to increase our attendance?

Another challenge that I see is that we have 95 registered members of the
jug mailing list.  However, only 5 of them are actually digesting the
messages.  This may be the result that the jug mailing list is confusing.  I
did not know that I was not subscribed to the mailing list until recently.
Maybe we need to post up a message on the yahoo group so that people will
know how to get the mailing from the jug mailing list.....which brings me to
the next concern.

Why do we have two different mailing lists?  We have one at yahoo and we
have one at the http://gr-jug.org.  I still receive emails from the yahoo
group.  It is actually the one that did the announcment that I was supposed
to be speaking tonight.  Not only that, but past coworkers have contacted me
to tell me that they are looking forward to my presentation.....:)  We
should consolidate to using one tool.

If anyone has any thoughts....any of the 5 Digesting members that is, please
let me know

Overall, let's get this thing moving and be one of the successful JUG's
around.  I have complete confidence in the group that we can pull this thing
together.

Thanks
Carlus
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From matt at eisgr.com  Thu Apr 20 15:16:09 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Thu Apr 20 14:50:32 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Let's get moving....
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930604200956w62356556k1401722a0870dd61@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604200956w62356556k1401722a0870dd61@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200604201416.12447.matt@eisgr.com>

We made the decision to ignore the Yahoo Group in favor of the mailing list, 
using the Yahoo Group as a poster page.
I don't recall the exact logic we used to make that decision.  I believe this 
is a bit of it:
* Mailman allows us a lot more control
* Mailman made administration and archive searching easier.  
* It also had better user-interface.  
* Becoming a member of Yahoo's services really hiked up Spam

Yahoo Groups were actually quite a pain to administer and take part in, 
especially for those of us who wanted to do just email.  

Best to all of you.  I read, but have little to post these days.  Quixtar has 
incorporated a great deal of Java technologies, though.  Alticor's core 
network platform is primarily J2EE, but we're finding a lot of the mentality 
that we should buy as much as we can of the stack (application) and then 
contract out the programming to make it all fit nicely.  I don't personally 
believe it's worked out the way anticipated, but it is what it is.

Hope all is well with the rest of you.
Matt

On Thursday 20 April 2006 12:56, Carlus Henry wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From radlickk at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 20 13:59:39 2006
From: radlickk at yahoo.com (Ken Radlick)
Date: Thu Apr 20 15:28:49 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Let's get moving....
In-Reply-To: <200604201416.12447.matt@eisgr.com>
Message-ID: <20060420195939.79478.qmail@web33113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The other thing that we use the Yahoo Group for is the
calendar to store the meeting dates. They have an nice
feature that will e-mail the notice up to two times at
the interval that is set (currently ours go out a week
and a day prior, I think), which is the messages that
you asked me to fix (which I changed back to the
generic message from the specific text that I was
putting to show the meeting topic in the e-mail
reminder). That is another reason we still have kept
the yahoo group. Perhaps we could migrate that
functionality to our webserver or use something else.

That's my $0.02

Ken

--- Matthew Carpenter <matt@eisgr.com> wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on unsubscription/customizing your
> preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> > We made the decision to ignore the Yahoo Group in
> favor of the mailing list, 
> using the Yahoo Group as a poster page.
> I don't recall the exact logic we used to make that
> decision.  I believe this 
> is a bit of it:
> * Mailman allows us a lot more control
> * Mailman made administration and archive searching
> easier.  
> * It also had better user-interface.  
> * Becoming a member of Yahoo's services really hiked
> up Spam
> 
> Yahoo Groups were actually quite a pain to
> administer and take part in, 
> especially for those of us who wanted to do just
> email.  
> 
> Best to all of you.  I read, but have little to post
> these days.  Quixtar has 
> incorporated a great deal of Java technologies,
> though.  Alticor's core 
> network platform is primarily J2EE, but we're
> finding a lot of the mentality 
> that we should buy as much as we can of the stack
> (application) and then 
> contract out the programming to make it all fit
> nicely.  I don't personally 
> believe it's worked out the way anticipated, but it
> is what it is.
> 
> Hope all is well with the rest of you.
> Matt
> 
> On Thursday 20 April 2006 12:56, Carlus Henry wrote:
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on
> > unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> 
> -- 
> Matthew Carpenter 
> matt@eisgr.com                         
> http://www.eisgr.com/
> 
> Enterprise Information Systems
> * Network Server Appliances
> * Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
> * Network Consulting, Integration & Support
> * Web Integration and E-Business
> > _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From dave at brondsema.net  Thu Apr 20 23:35:37 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Thu Apr 20 22:05:06 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Let's get moving....
In-Reply-To: <20060420195939.79478.qmail@web33113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060420195939.79478.qmail@web33113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <444844F9.2020005@brondsema.net>

I have experience configuring and running mailman.  I'd be happy to take
care of that (and the website, too, for that matter).

I think we could set up a cron job to send out scheduled reminders to
the mailing list and do away with the yahoo group altogether.

Dave

Ken Radlick wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> The other thing that we use the Yahoo Group for is the
> calendar to store the meeting dates. They have an nice
> feature that will e-mail the notice up to two times at
> the interval that is set (currently ours go out a week
> and a day prior, I think), which is the messages that
> you asked me to fix (which I changed back to the
> generic message from the specific text that I was
> putting to show the meeting topic in the e-mail
> reminder). That is another reason we still have kept
> the yahoo group. Perhaps we could migrate that
> functionality to our webserver or use something else.
>
> That's my $0.02
>
> Ken
>
> --- Matthew Carpenter <matt@eisgr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
>>Group mailing list.
>>Please see the bottom of this message for
>>information on unsubscription/customizing your
>>preferences.
>>------------------------------------------
>>
>>>We made the decision to ignore the Yahoo Group in
>>
>>favor of the mailing list,
>>using the Yahoo Group as a poster page.
>>I don't recall the exact logic we used to make that
>>decision.  I believe this
>>is a bit of it:
>>* Mailman allows us a lot more control
>>* Mailman made administration and archive searching
>>easier.
>>* It also had better user-interface.
>>* Becoming a member of Yahoo's services really hiked
>>up Spam
>>
>>Yahoo Groups were actually quite a pain to
>>administer and take part in,
>>especially for those of us who wanted to do just
>>email.
>>
>>Best to all of you.  I read, but have little to post
>>these days.  Quixtar has
>>incorporated a great deal of Java technologies,
>>though.  Alticor's core
>>network platform is primarily J2EE, but we're
>>finding a lot of the mentality
>>that we should buy as much as we can of the stack
>>(application) and then
>>contract out the programming to make it all fit
>>nicely.  I don't personally
>>believe it's worked out the way anticipated, but it
>>is what it is.
>>
>>Hope all is well with the rest of you.
>>Matt
>>
>>On Thursday 20 April 2006 12:56, Carlus Henry wrote:
>>
>>>You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
>>
>>Group mailing list.
>>
>>>Please see the bottom of this message for
>>
>>information on
>>
>>>unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>>>------------------------------------------
>>
>>--
>>Matthew Carpenter
>>matt@eisgr.com
>>http://www.eisgr.com/
>>
>>Enterprise Information Systems
>>* Network Server Appliances
>>* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
>>* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
>>* Web Integration and E-Business
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>Jug mailing list
>>Jug@gr-jug.org
>>Un/Subscribe/Customize
>>http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>


--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 08:30:21 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 21 06:59:28 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Let's get moving....
In-Reply-To: <444844F9.2020005@brondsema.net>
References: <20060420195939.79478.qmail@web33113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	 <444844F9.2020005@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <f9688a930604210430h769ef6d7yb22707e2ab8c1c9@mail.gmail.com>

Dave,

Thanks so much for being willing to help with this effort.

How long do you think it would take for you to make the necessary
modifications?

Ken,
Will you please give Dave the necessary information in order to administer
the mailmain portion of our server?  Logins passwords and all of that good
stuff.

We still have a lot of people subscribed to the yahoo group.  If we are
going to move people over to the new gr-jug mailing list, we need to send
out a message through the yahoo group to notify them that we will be
eliminating the yahoo group and give them instructions on how to join the
gr-jug group.  Currently, no one has the ability to post messages to the
yahoo group except for the moderator.....which I am assuming is you.  Will
you be able to draft a message posting of this nature?  Please be sure to
mention that they should change their profile to receive digests from the
gr-jug mailing list.

Also maybe it would be a good idea to send out an appointment to let them
know that we will be closing down the yahoo group.  This is to make sure
that the people have a timeline of when to switch over to the gr-jug mailing
list.

Does this sound like an appropriate plan of action?  If there are any
questions or concerns, please let me know.

Thanks
Carlus

On 4/20/06, Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> I have experience configuring and running mailman.  I'd be happy to take
> care of that (and the website, too, for that matter).
>
> I think we could set up a cron job to send out scheduled reminders to
> the mailing list and do away with the yahoo group altogether.
>
> Dave
>
> Ken Radlick wrote:
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> > The other thing that we use the Yahoo Group for is the
> > calendar to store the meeting dates. They have an nice
> > feature that will e-mail the notice up to two times at
> > the interval that is set (currently ours go out a week
> > and a day prior, I think), which is the messages that
> > you asked me to fix (which I changed back to the
> > generic message from the specific text that I was
> > putting to show the meeting topic in the e-mail
> > reminder). That is another reason we still have kept
> > the yahoo group. Perhaps we could migrate that
> > functionality to our webserver or use something else.
> >
> > That's my $0.02
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- Matthew Carpenter <matt@eisgr.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> >>Group mailing list.
> >>Please see the bottom of this message for
> >>information on unsubscription/customizing your
> >>preferences.
> >>------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>>We made the decision to ignore the Yahoo Group in
> >>
> >>favor of the mailing list,
> >>using the Yahoo Group as a poster page.
> >>I don't recall the exact logic we used to make that
> >>decision.  I believe this
> >>is a bit of it:
> >>* Mailman allows us a lot more control
> >>* Mailman made administration and archive searching
> >>easier.
> >>* It also had better user-interface.
> >>* Becoming a member of Yahoo's services really hiked
> >>up Spam
> >>
> >>Yahoo Groups were actually quite a pain to
> >>administer and take part in,
> >>especially for those of us who wanted to do just
> >>email.
> >>
> >>Best to all of you.  I read, but have little to post
> >>these days.  Quixtar has
> >>incorporated a great deal of Java technologies,
> >>though.  Alticor's core
> >>network platform is primarily J2EE, but we're
> >>finding a lot of the mentality
> >>that we should buy as much as we can of the stack
> >>(application) and then
> >>contract out the programming to make it all fit
> >>nicely.  I don't personally
> >>believe it's worked out the way anticipated, but it
> >>is what it is.
> >>
> >>Hope all is well with the rest of you.
> >>Matt
> >>
> >>On Thursday 20 April 2006 12:56, Carlus Henry wrote:
> >>
> >>>You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> >>
> >>Group mailing list.
> >>
> >>>Please see the bottom of this message for
> >>
> >>information on
> >>
> >>>unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> >>>------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>--
> >>Matthew Carpenter
> >>matt@eisgr.com
> >>http://www.eisgr.com/
> >>
> >>Enterprise Information Systems
> >>* Network Server Appliances
> >>* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
> >>* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
> >>* Web Integration and E-Business
> >>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>Jug mailing list
> >>Jug@gr-jug.org
> >>Un/Subscribe/Customize
> >>http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
>
>
> --
> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
>                 <><
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
>
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 08:38:23 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 21 07:07:29 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
Message-ID: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo for MailMan?

I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my personal belief
is that the yahoo group is a better fit for our needs.  It requires little
to no maintenance and there will be a limited number of support issues.  It
would be one less thing that we would be responsible for.

I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering Mailman, but what
is going to happen when he graduates and starts to make his millions.  He is
not going to have time to administer mailman between spending all of his
money and sharing it with me....

What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to grow.  We could
post pictures, files and all of that good stuff.  It gives us a professional
look and feel that we do not have to develop.  There are just so many
benefits to using it, that I am not seeing any drawbacks.....

Please share your thoughts on this one.

Thanks
Carlus
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From vasiliy.gagin at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 08:49:47 2006
From: vasiliy.gagin at gmail.com (Vasiliy Gagin)
Date: Fri Apr 21 07:18:53 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>

I'll vote for Yahoo Group, or Google group.
Maintenance argument is convincing.

On 4/21/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo for
> MailMan?
>
> I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my personal belief
> is that the yahoo group is a better fit for our needs.  It requires little
> to no maintenance and there will be a limited number of support issues.  It
> would be one less thing that we would be responsible for.
>
> I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering Mailman, but
> what is going to happen when he graduates and starts to make his millions.
> He is not going to have time to administer mailman between spending all of
> his money and sharing it with me....
>
> What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to grow.  We
> could post pictures, files and all of that good stuff.  It gives us a
> professional look and feel that we do not have to develop.  There are just
> so many benefits to using it, that I am not seeing any drawbacks.....
>
> Please share your thoughts on this one.
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
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From adams at calvin.edu  Fri Apr 21 10:09:09 2006
From: adams at calvin.edu (Joel Adams)
Date: Fri Apr 21 08:38:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	<70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>

Part of the motivation for leaving yahoo was that yahoo changed their  
privacy policy and starting giving out e-mail addresses to their  
"partners". Members of the group then began getting lots of spam. The  
intent was to gradually shift from yahoo to the gr-jug server.

Oh, and Dave graduated from Calvin last year, and is working locally.  
8^)

$0.02,

-Joel.

On Apr 21, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Vasiliy Gagin wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on  
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> I'll vote for Yahoo Group, or Google group.
> Maintenance argument is convincing.
>
> On 4/21/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on  
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo for  
> MailMan?
>
> I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my personal  
> belief is that the yahoo group is a better fit for our needs.  It  
> requires little to no maintenance and there will be a limited  
> number of support issues.  It would be one less thing that we would  
> be responsible for.
>
> I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering Mailman,  
> but what is going to happen when he graduates and starts to make  
> his millions.  He is not going to have time to administer mailman  
> between spending all of his money and sharing it with me....
>
> What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to grow.   
> We could post pictures, files and all of that good stuff.  It gives  
> us a professional look and feel that we do not have to develop.   
> There are just so many benefits to using it, that I am not seeing  
> any drawbacks.....
>
> Please share your thoughts on this one.
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

-Joel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prof. Joel Adams
CS Dept, Calvin College
http://www.calvin.edu/~adams




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From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 10:46:13 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri Apr 21 09:15:21 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>
	 <E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>
Message-ID: <e8898d550604210646t7a88cb57ma13c2708601f9e12@mail.gmail.com>

Is there another service that competes with Yahoo Groups that we could
use?  The Ruby group uses meetup.  This costs, I think around $40 a
year.

If we are thinking about using all the services that Yahoo groups have
to offer,  Online file storage, image storage, calander, then Google
Groups is not a good replacement because it is just a newgroup
service.

Any suggestions?

On 4/21/06, Joel Adams <adams@calvin.edu> wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Part of the motivation for leaving yahoo was that yahoo changed their
> privacy policy and starting giving out e-mail addresses to their "partners".
> Members of the group then began getting lots of spam. The intent was to
> gradually shift from yahoo to the gr-jug server.
>
> Oh, and Dave graduated from Calvin last year, and is working locally. 8^)
>
> $0.02,
>
> -Joel.
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Vasiliy Gagin wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------ I'll vote for
> Yahoo Group, or Google group.
>  Maintenance argument is convincing.
>
> On 4/21/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo for
> MailMan?
> >
> > I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my personal belief
> is that the yahoo group is a better fit for our needs.  It requires little
> to no maintenance and there will be a limited number of support issues.  It
> would be one less thing that we would be responsible for.
> >
> > I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering Mailman, but
> what is going to happen when he graduates and starts to make his millions.
> He is not going to have time to administer mailman between spending all of
> his money and sharing it with me....
> >
> > What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to grow.  We
> could post pictures, files and all of that good stuff.  It gives us a
> professional look and feel that we do not have to develop.  There are just
> so many benefits to using it, that I am not seeing any drawbacks.....
> >
> > Please share your thoughts on this one.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Carlus
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
> -Joel.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Prof. Joel Adams
> CS Dept, Calvin College
> http://www.calvin.edu/~adams
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>


--
Share and Enjoy

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 12:18:32 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 21 10:47:40 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>
	 <E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>
Message-ID: <f9688a930604210818s7b0ae32bua016db47046fe376@mail.gmail.com>

I better start asking Dave for some money then....

Spamming is horrible.  I have not had that experience with yahoo groups, and
I am a member / moderator for a couple.  Could it be that it was the way
that the group settings were set?  If it is based on the setting, then we
can address the spamming issue.  If it is not based on the setting, then
maybe we should entertain the idea of Google Groups or something along those
lines.

Either way, if we decide to use yahoo, google, or mailman, we need to
communicate to the group members.  I know that there are many members who
rely on the Yahoo Groups as their form of communication for the GRJUG.  It
was evident when I was told that they were looking forward to my
presentation that I was scheduled to give yesterday.  I am going to draft an
email to let everyone know that we are aware of the confusion between the
mailing lists and we are actively working on getting it resolved.  What I
don't know is how we should move forward in making the decisions about which
group to use.

I would like to suggest a quick poll.  We will collect votes over the
weekend, and make a decision by Monday which group mailing we are going to
go with.  The options are:

Google - 0
Yahoo - 1
Mailman - 0

I do not even want to entertain the thought of spending money for this
service at this point and time.  (Ben, shame on you :) )

Thanks
Carlus

P.S.  My vote is the one for Yahoo.


On 4/21/06, Joel Adams <adams@calvin.edu> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Part of the motivation for leaving yahoo was that yahoo changed their
> privacy policy and starting giving out e-mail addresses to their "partners".
> Members of the group then began getting lots of spam. The intent was to
> gradually shift from yahoo to the gr-jug server.
>
> Oh, and Dave graduated from Calvin last year, and is working locally. 8^)
>
> $0.02,
>
> -Joel.
> On Apr 21, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Vasiliy Gagin wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> I'll vote for Yahoo Group, or Google group.
> Maintenance argument is convincing.
>
> On 4/21/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> > unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo for
> > MailMan?
> >
> > I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my personal
> > belief is that the yahoo group is a better fit for our needs.  It requires
> > little to no maintenance and there will be a limited number of support
> > issues.  It would be one less thing that we would be responsible for.
> >
> > I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering Mailman, but
> > what is going to happen when he graduates and starts to make his millions.
> > He is not going to have time to administer mailman between spending all of
> > his money and sharing it with me....
> >
> > What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to grow.  We
> > could post pictures, files and all of that good stuff.  It gives us a
> > professional look and feel that we do not have to develop.  There are just
> > so many benefits to using it, that I am not seeing any drawbacks.....
> >
> > Please share your thoughts on this one.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Carlus
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
> -Joel.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Prof. Joel Adams
> CS Dept, Calvin College
> http://www.calvin.edu/~adams <http://www.calvin.edu/%7Eadams>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 16:46:39 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:18:52 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Mailing List
Message-ID: <e2auov+k4vf@eGroups.com>

Good morning everyone,

There has been a lot of confusion lately regarding the mailing lists
that members of the GRJUG subscribe to.  At one point, GRJUG did use
the Yahoo groups.  However, the GRJUG moved it's mailing to a site
located at

http://gr-jug.org

If you would like to stay in the know, please visit this site and join
the mailing list there.

Digest Membership
=================
One of the things that I noticed when I recently joined is that there
are about 95 members of the group, yet there are only 5 digesting
members.  If you are not a digesting member then odds are you are not
getting the emails that are sent to the gr-jug mailing list.

For new members as well as old, please take the time to specify that
you would like to receive digests from this mailing list to ensure
that you will receive emails from the group.

Thanks
Carlus




 

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    grandrapidsjavausersgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 



From dave at brondsema.net  Fri Apr 21 16:55:16 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:24:31 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] "digest" subscribers
In-Reply-To: <e2auov+k4vf@eGroups.com>
References: <e2auov+k4vf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <44490064.4030904@brondsema.net>

Carlus Henry wrote:

> 
> Digest Membership
> =================
> One of the things that I noticed when I recently joined is that there
> are about 95 members of the group, yet there are only 5 digesting
> members.  If you are not a digesting member then odds are you are not
> getting the emails that are sent to the gr-jug mailing list.
> 
> For new members as well as old, please take the time to specify that
> you would like to receive digests from this mailing list to ensure
> that you will receive emails from the group.


Carlus, are you a digested member?  No.  Do you recieve emails?  Yes.

Digest refers to "Would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily
digest?"

You may want to send out a correction email to the yahoo group again.


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From dave at brondsema.net  Fri Apr 21 16:59:17 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:28:29 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930604210818s7b0ae32bua016db47046fe376@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	<70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>
	<E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>
	<f9688a930604210818s7b0ae32bua016db47046fe376@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44490155.1090800@brondsema.net>

Even if we can control the spam issue with yahoo, there are
advertisements aplenty on yahoo group sites.  I also can't envision us
actually using the other features of the yahoo group site.  Perhaps
uploading slides from presentations, but that's it.

I completely understand the maintenance issue, but I still vote for
self-hosted mailman.

Carlus Henry wrote:
> 
> I better start asking Dave for some money then....
> 
> Spamming is horrible.  I have not had that experience with yahoo groups,
> and I am a member / moderator for a couple.  Could it be that it was the
> way that the group settings were set?  If it is based on the setting,
> then we can address the spamming issue.  If it is not based on the
> setting, then maybe we should entertain the idea of Google Groups or
> something along those lines.
> 
> Either way, if we decide to use yahoo, google, or mailman, we need to
> communicate to the group members.  I know that there are many members
> who rely on the Yahoo Groups as their form of communication for the
> GRJUG.  It was evident when I was told that they were looking forward to
> my presentation that I was scheduled to give yesterday.  I am going to
> draft an email to let everyone know that we are aware of the confusion
> between the mailing lists and we are actively working on getting it
> resolved.  What I don't know is how we should move forward in making the
> decisions about which group to use.
> 
> I would like to suggest a quick poll.  We will collect votes over the
> weekend, and make a decision by Monday which group mailing we are going
> to go with.  The options are:
> 
> Google - 0
> Yahoo - 1
> Mailman - 0
> 
> I do not even want to entertain the thought of spending money for this
> service at this point and time.  (Ben, shame on you :) )
> 
> Thanks
> Carlus
> 
> P.S.  My vote is the one for Yahoo.
> 
> 
> On 4/21/06, *Joel Adams* <adams@calvin.edu <mailto:adams@calvin.edu>> wrote:
> 
>     You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>     Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>     unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>     ------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>     Part of the motivation for leaving yahoo was that yahoo changed
>     their privacy policy and starting giving out e-mail addresses to
>     their "partners". Members of the group then began getting lots of
>     spam. The intent was to gradually shift from yahoo to the gr-jug
>     server.
> 
>     Oh, and Dave graduated from Calvin last year, and is working
>     locally. 8^)
> 
>     $0.02,
> 
>     -Joel.
> 
>     On Apr 21, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Vasiliy Gagin wrote:
> 
>>     You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
>>     Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>>     unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>>     ------------------------------------------
>>     I'll vote for Yahoo Group, or Google group.
>>     Maintenance argument is convincing.
>>
>>     On 4/21/06, * Carlus Henry* <carlushenry@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:carlushenry@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing
>>         list.
>>         Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>>         unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>>         ------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>         Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo
>>         for MailMan?
>>
>>         I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my
>>         personal belief is that the yahoo group is a better fit for
>>         our needs.  It requires little to no maintenance and there
>>         will be a limited number of support issues.  It would be one
>>         less thing that we would be responsible for.
>>
>>         I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering
>>         Mailman, but what is going to happen when he graduates and
>>         starts to make his millions.  He is not going to have time to
>>         administer mailman between spending all of his money and
>>         sharing it with me....
>>
>>         What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to
>>         grow.  We could post pictures, files and all of that good
>>         stuff.  It gives us a professional look and feel that we do
>>         not have to develop.  There are just so many benefits to using
>>         it, that I am not seeing any drawbacks.....
>>
>>         Please share your thoughts on this one.
>>
>>         Thanks
>>         Carlus
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Jug mailing list
>>         Jug@gr-jug.org <mailto:Jug@gr-jug.org>
>>         Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Jug mailing list
>>     Jug@gr-jug.org <mailto:Jug@gr-jug.org>
>>     Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>     <http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug>
> 
>     -Joel.
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>     Prof. Joel Adams
>     CS Dept, Calvin College
>     http://www.calvin.edu/~adams <http://www.calvin.edu/%7Eadams>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Jug mailing list
>     Jug@gr-jug.org <mailto:Jug@gr-jug.org>
>     Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Fri Apr 21 13:04:42 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:34:07 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
Message-ID: <"H00009060155c227.1145635481.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

I'm currently subscribed to the MailMan list but am not a member of the Yahoo group.  Could someone add me to the Yahoo group so I could make an informed decision?

I already have a Yahoo account with the username 'jeremygerrits'.

Thanks,
JG

From matt at eisgr.com  Fri Apr 21 13:08:17 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:38:19 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <e2auov+k4vf@eGroups.com>
References: <e2auov+k4vf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <200604211208.20595.matt@eisgr.com>

carlus, you might want to check the mailman userlist as well.  There are 97 
members listed.
Digest users only get one message per day (or ### messages).  Everyone else 
gets all messages one at a time.

That is one of the benefits of Mailman.  

On Friday 21 April 2006 11:46, Carlus Henry wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> Good morning everyone,
>
> There has been a lot of confusion lately regarding the mailing lists
> that members of the GRJUG subscribe to.  At one point, GRJUG did use
> the Yahoo groups.  However, the GRJUG moved it's mailing to a site
> located at
>
> http://gr-jug.org
>
> If you would like to stay in the know, please visit this site and join
> the mailing list there.
>
> Digest Membership
> =================
> One of the things that I noticed when I recently joined is that there
> are about 95 members of the group, yet there are only 5 digesting
> members.  If you are not a digesting member then odds are you are not
> getting the emails that are sent to the gr-jug mailing list.
>
> For new members as well as old, please take the time to specify that
> you would like to receive digests from this mailing list to ensure
> that you will receive emails from the group.
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     grandrapidsjavausersgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From kadams at gfs.com  Fri Apr 21 13:11:17 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:40:37 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [VOTE] Mailing list manager
Message-ID: <s448cbf2.044@mail2.gfs.com>

> What I don't know is how we should move forward in making the
decisions about which
group to use. I would like to suggest a quick poll.  We will collect
votes over the weekend, and make a decision by Monday which group
mailing we are going to go with. <

To modify and further formalize Carlus' suggestion, I'm starting a
thread for some open source style voting on the issue.

Our options are:

Yahoo
Google
Mailman

Reply back with a +1 for the mailing list manager you'd prefer.

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 16:52:34 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:40:39 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Member Postings
Message-ID: <e2av42+bsme@eGroups.com>

One more quick note.

During the change over to the http://gr-jug.org site, the Yahoo Grand
Rapids Java User Group posting was disabled.  Only moderators were
allowed to post.

I have opened posting back up.  Members, please feel free to post.

WARNING
=======
If you spam or solicit, you will be removed from the group no
questions asked.  This is for my personal sanity as well as the other
members of the group.

Thanks
Carlus








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    grandrapidsjavausersgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 


From kadams at gfs.com  Fri Apr 21 13:11:57 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:41:20 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: [VOTE] Mailing list manager
Message-ID: <s448cc20.051@mail2.gfs.com>

Mailman +1



_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From matt at eisgr.com  Fri Apr 21 13:12:57 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Fri Apr 21 11:42:43 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <44490155.1090800@brondsema.net>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9688a930604210818s7b0ae32bua016db47046fe376@mail.gmail.com>
	<44490155.1090800@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <200604211212.59747.matt@eisgr.com>

For those who do not know, here are the instructions for 
subscribing/unsubbing.

> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From zenarchitect at perceptionsoft.com  Fri Apr 21 11:42:03 2006
From: zenarchitect at perceptionsoft.com (Zen Architect)
Date: Fri Apr 21 13:14:25 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [VOTE] Mailing list manager
In-Reply-To: <s448cbf2.044@mail2.gfs.com>
References: <s448cbf2.044@mail2.gfs.com>
Message-ID: <08C9BF04-DF52-41A2-B709-F1D9C0F3847A@perceptionsoft.com>

Mailman+1


On Apr 21, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Kyle Adams wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on  
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>> What I don't know is how we should move forward in making the
> decisions about which
> group to use. I would like to suggest a quick poll.  We will collect
> votes over the weekend, and make a decision by Monday which group
> mailing we are going to go with. <
>
> To modify and further formalize Carlus' suggestion, I'm starting a
> thread for some open source style voting on the issue.
>
> Our options are:
>
> Yahoo
> Google
> Mailman
>
> Reply back with a +1 for the mailing list manager you'd prefer.
>
> _____
>
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>

Zen Architect
zenarchitect@perceptionsoft.com


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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 13:46:29 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 21 15:02:41 2006
Subject: [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Fwd: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <200604211212.59747.matt@eisgr.com>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <f9688a930604210818s7b0ae32bua016db47046fe376@mail.gmail.com>
	 <44490155.1090800@brondsema.net> <200604211212.59747.matt@eisgr.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930604210946v196d2272g2390f3b2ef05287f@mail.gmail.com>

For those who do not know, here are the instructions for
subscribing/unsubbing.

> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

--
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    grandrapidsjavausersgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 


From radlickk at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 21 13:37:36 2006
From: radlickk at yahoo.com (Ken Radlick)
Date: Fri Apr 21 15:06:41 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <"H00009060155c227.1145635481.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>
Message-ID: <20060421193736.53060.qmail@web33113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You should have an invite to the Yahoo group.

Ken

--- jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on unsubscription/customizing your
> preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> I'm currently subscribed to the MailMan list but am
> not a member of the Yahoo group.  Could someone add
> me to the Yahoo group so I could make an informed
> decision?
> 
> I already have a Yahoo account with the username
> 'jeremygerrits'.
> 
> Thanks,
> JG
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 16:58:08 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 21 15:27:14 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [VOTE] Mailing list manager
In-Reply-To: <08C9BF04-DF52-41A2-B709-F1D9C0F3847A@perceptionsoft.com>
References: <s448cbf2.044@mail2.gfs.com>
	 <08C9BF04-DF52-41A2-B709-F1D9C0F3847A@perceptionsoft.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930604211258t4083e508x64377cb607baac47@mail.gmail.com>

Yahoo+1

On 4/21/06, Zen Architect <zenarchitect@perceptionsoft.com> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Mailman+1
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Kyle Adams wrote:
>
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> > unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> >> What I don't know is how we should move forward in making the
> > decisions about which
> > group to use. I would like to suggest a quick poll.  We will collect
> > votes over the weekend, and make a decision by Monday which group
> > mailing we are going to go with. <
> >
> > To modify and further formalize Carlus' suggestion, I'm starting a
> > thread for some open source style voting on the issue.
> >
> > Our options are:
> >
> > Yahoo
> > Google
> > Mailman
> >
> > Reply back with a +1 for the mailing list manager you'd prefer.
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
> >
>
> Zen Architect
> zenarchitect@perceptionsoft.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
>
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From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Fri Apr 21 17:42:24 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Fri Apr 21 16:11:57 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
Message-ID: <"H000090601561bea.1145652144.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

Do you have any idea where the invitation got sent to?

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Radlick [mailto:radlickk@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 3:38 PM
To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List
Subject: RE: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------
You should have an invite to the Yahoo group.

Ken

--- jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on unsubscription/customizing your
> preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> I'm currently subscribed to the MailMan list but am
> not a member of the Yahoo group.  Could someone add
> me to the Yahoo group so I could make an informed
> decision?
> 
> I already have a Yahoo account with the username
> 'jeremygerrits'.
> 
> Thanks,
> JG
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


From matt at eisgr.com  Fri Apr 21 23:03:24 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Fri Apr 21 21:33:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <"H000090601561bea.1145652144.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>
References: <"H000090601561bea.1145652144.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>
Message-ID: <200604212203.27587.matt@eisgr.com>

I believe this is part of why we chose the MailMan approach.  It is up to the 
user to subscribe or unsub.

On Friday 21 April 2006 16:42, jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> Do you have any idea where the invitation got sent to?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Radlick [mailto:radlickk@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 3:38 PM
> To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> You should have an invite to the Yahoo group.
>
> Ken
>
> --- jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us wrote:
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> > Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for
> > information on unsubscription/customizing your
> > preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> > I'm currently subscribed to the MailMan list but am
> > not a member of the Yahoo group.  Could someone add
> > me to the Yahoo group so I could make an informed
> > decision?
> >
> > I already have a Yahoo account with the username
> > 'jeremygerrits'.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > JG
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize
> > http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 22:56:37 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Sun Apr 23 21:25:42 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [VOTE] Mail Man Wins!!!!
Message-ID: <f9688a930604231856p3ef43e15l78b63a1573240882@mail.gmail.com>

MailMan Server Wins!!!!!!!!

Please look for another post where we will begin to discuss how to remove
the grjug yahoo group.

Thanks for everyone that participated in this vote.
Carlus

On 4/21/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yahoo+1
>
> On 4/21/06, Zen Architect <zenarchitect@perceptionsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Mailman+1
>
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2006, at 9:11 AM, Kyle Adams wrote:
>
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> > unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> >> What I don't know is how we should move forward in making the
> > decisions about which
> > group to use. I would like to suggest a quick poll.  We will collect
> > votes over the weekend, and make a decision by Monday which group
> > mailing we are going to go with. <
> >
> > To modify and further formalize Carlus' suggestion, I'm starting a
> > thread for some open source style voting on the issue.
> >
> > Our options are:
> >
> > Yahoo
> > Google
> > Mailman
> >
> > Reply back with a +1 for the mailing list manager you'd prefer.
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
> >
>
> Zen Architect
> zenarchitect@perceptionsoft.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
>
>
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 22:58:38 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Sun Apr 23 21:27:37 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Removing Yahoo Group
Message-ID: <f9688a930604231858v51bb154ey8a9ffc9a075b4fc6@mail.gmail.com>

Here are the steps that I propose to take in order to disband the Yahoo
Group.

1.)  Send out a "Special Notice" Message to indicate that we are going to be
dropping the Yahoo Group from the Grand Rapids Java User Group.
2.)  Send out an appointment that indicates when this group will be
dismantled.
3.)  Determine who will administer the MailMan grjug group.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks
Carlus
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From brian.curnow at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 08:31:35 2006
From: brian.curnow at gmail.com (Brian Curnow)
Date: Mon Apr 24 07:00:39 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: [VOTE] Mailing list manager
Message-ID: <a2c133ef0604240431o14d034dcjf86cd1fe5388bd08@mail.gmail.com>

Mailman +1
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From carl at atomicobject.com  Mon Apr 24 11:56:02 2006
From: carl at atomicobject.com (Carl Erickson)
Date: Mon Apr 24 10:25:07 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550604210646t7a88cb57ma13c2708601f9e12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	<70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>
	<E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>
	<e8898d550604210646t7a88cb57ma13c2708601f9e12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <723C5720-7C3E-4F2E-A164-29A7E772096F@atomicobject.com>

Is there a local Ruby group?

Carl

On Apr 21, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Benjamin Flanders wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on  
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> Is there another service that competes with Yahoo Groups that we could
> use?  The Ruby group uses meetup.  This costs, I think around $40 a
> year.
>
> If we are thinking about using all the services that Yahoo groups have
> to offer,  Online file storage, image storage, calander, then Google
> Groups is not a good replacement because it is just a newgroup
> service.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> On 4/21/06, Joel Adams <adams@calvin.edu> wrote:
>> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Part of the motivation for leaving yahoo was that yahoo changed their
>> privacy policy and starting giving out e-mail addresses to their  
>> "partners".
>> Members of the group then began getting lots of spam. The intent  
>> was to
>> gradually shift from yahoo to the gr-jug server.
>>
>> Oh, and Dave graduated from Calvin last year, and is working  
>> locally. 8^)
>>
>> $0.02,
>>
>> -Joel.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Vasiliy Gagin wrote:
>>
>> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>> ------------------------------------------ I'll vote for
>> Yahoo Group, or Google group.
>>  Maintenance argument is convincing.
>>
>> On 4/21/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>>> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo for
>> MailMan?
>>>
>>> I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my  
>>> personal belief
>> is that the yahoo group is a better fit for our needs.  It  
>> requires little
>> to no maintenance and there will be a limited number of support  
>> issues.  It
>> would be one less thing that we would be responsible for.
>>>
>>> I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering  
>>> Mailman, but
>> what is going to happen when he graduates and starts to make his  
>> millions.
>> He is not going to have time to administer mailman between  
>> spending all of
>> his money and sharing it with me....
>>>
>>> What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to  
>>> grow.  We
>> could post pictures, files and all of that good stuff.  It gives us a
>> professional look and feel that we do not have to develop.  There  
>> are just
>> so many benefits to using it, that I am not seeing any drawbacks.....
>>>
>>> Please share your thoughts on this one.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Carlus
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Jug mailing list
>>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>>> Un/Subscribe/Customize
>> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jug mailing list
>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>> Un/Subscribe/Customize
>> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>
>> -Joel.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Prof. Joel Adams
>> CS Dept, Calvin College
>> http://www.calvin.edu/~adams
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jug mailing list
>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>> Un/Subscribe/Customize
>> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Share and Enjoy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

---
Carl Erickson, President
Atomic Object LLC  941 Wealthy Street SE   Grand Rapids MI 49506 USA
http://atomicobject.com/  +1 616 776 6020 voice   +1 616 776 6015 fax



From flanderb at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 11:58:26 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Mon Apr 24 10:27:25 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MailMan vs Yahoo Group
In-Reply-To: <723C5720-7C3E-4F2E-A164-29A7E772096F@atomicobject.com>
References: <f9688a930604210438g2f622ec2n29cbe181bc38489e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <70376cf00604210449p312405f2xa24c0951bb77df46@mail.gmail.com>
	 <E265AE89-6CF4-4928-BB61-8239B81C3FB0@calvin.edu>
	 <e8898d550604210646t7a88cb57ma13c2708601f9e12@mail.gmail.com>
	 <723C5720-7C3E-4F2E-A164-29A7E772096F@atomicobject.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550604240758s3c6c38cds5291269b351d7bd1@mail.gmail.com>

yes
http://www.gr-ruby.org/

On 4/24/06, Carl Erickson <carl@atomicobject.com> wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> Is there a local Ruby group?
>
> Carl
>
> On Apr 21, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Benjamin Flanders wrote:
>
> > You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> > Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> > unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Is there another service that competes with Yahoo Groups that we could
> > use?  The Ruby group uses meetup.  This costs, I think around $40 a
> > year.
> >
> > If we are thinking about using all the services that Yahoo groups have
> > to offer,  Online file storage, image storage, calander, then Google
> > Groups is not a good replacement because it is just a newgroup
> > service.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> > On 4/21/06, Joel Adams <adams@calvin.edu> wrote:
> >> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> >> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> >> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> >> ------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> Part of the motivation for leaving yahoo was that yahoo changed their
> >> privacy policy and starting giving out e-mail addresses to their
> >> "partners".
> >> Members of the group then began getting lots of spam. The intent
> >> was to
> >> gradually shift from yahoo to the gr-jug server.
> >>
> >> Oh, and Dave graduated from Calvin last year, and is working
> >> locally. 8^)
> >>
> >> $0.02,
> >>
> >> -Joel.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 21, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Vasiliy Gagin wrote:
> >>
> >> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> >> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> >> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> >> ------------------------------------------ I'll vote for
> >> Yahoo Group, or Google group.
> >>  Maintenance argument is convincing.
> >>
> >> On 4/21/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> >>> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> >> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> >>> ------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sorry to bring up old stuff people, but why did we forgo Yahoo for
> >> MailMan?
> >>>
> >>> I have had a lot of experience with the Yahoo group and my
> >>> personal belief
> >> is that the yahoo group is a better fit for our needs.  It
> >> requires little
> >> to no maintenance and there will be a limited number of support
> >> issues.  It
> >> would be one less thing that we would be responsible for.
> >>>
> >>> I am sure that Dave is more than capable of administering
> >>> Mailman, but
> >> what is going to happen when he graduates and starts to make his
> >> millions.
> >> He is not going to have time to administer mailman between
> >> spending all of
> >> his money and sharing it with me....
> >>>
> >>> What's more, is that the yahoo group has bigger potential to
> >>> grow.  We
> >> could post pictures, files and all of that good stuff.  It gives us a
> >> professional look and feel that we do not have to develop.  There
> >> are just
> >> so many benefits to using it, that I am not seeing any drawbacks.....
> >>>
> >>> Please share your thoughts on this one.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Carlus
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Jug mailing list
> >>> Jug@gr-jug.org
> >>> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> >> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Jug mailing list
> >> Jug@gr-jug.org
> >> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> >> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >>
> >> -Joel.
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Prof. Joel Adams
> >> CS Dept, Calvin College
> >> http://www.calvin.edu/~adams
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Jug mailing list
> >> Jug@gr-jug.org
> >> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> >> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Share and Enjoy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
> ---
> Carl Erickson, President
> Atomic Object LLC  941 Wealthy Street SE   Grand Rapids MI 49506 USA
> http://atomicobject.com/  +1 616 776 6020 voice   +1 616 776 6015 fax
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>


--
Share and Enjoy

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 22:03:56 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Mon Apr 24 11:47:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Special Notice - Mailing List
	changes
Message-ID: <e2bhbs+dri7@eGroups.com>

For those of you who have already received the email notification
regarding the http://gr-jug.org mailing list please disregard this
email.  Since some of the members only receive special notices, I
wanted to bring this to their attention

----
There has been some changes regarding the mailing list service for the
Grand Rapids Java User Group.  If you would like to enroll into our
new mailing server, please proceed to this link and follow the
necessary instructions there:

http://gr-jug.org

If there are any questions, please post them to this list.

Thanks
Carlus








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    grandrapidsjavausersgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 



From joe.chavez at chavez.ws  Wed Apr 26 14:22:37 2006
From: joe.chavez at chavez.ws (Joe Chavez)
Date: Wed Apr 26 15:51:58 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Subversion Talk
Message-ID: <AD29566D-9D58-4993-847D-A8B69CC2F8B2@chavez.ws>

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From joe.chavez at chavez.ws  Wed Apr 26 14:24:31 2006
From: joe.chavez at chavez.ws (Joe Chavez)
Date: Wed Apr 26 15:53:33 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Java jobs in Grand Rapids area
Message-ID: <7C1177A3-F9C6-43EA-8F0F-A732BA84369F@chavez.ws>


Hello,

What is the outlook for getting a Java (J2EE, J2SE, etc.) in the area?

Is the market good for this skill set?

Are companies in the area using Java technology?


Joe Chavez
joe.chavez@chavez.ws


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From matt at eisgr.com  Thu Apr 27 10:20:47 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Thu Apr 27 09:53:26 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Java jobs in Grand Rapids area
In-Reply-To: <7C1177A3-F9C6-43EA-8F0F-A732BA84369F@chavez.ws>
References: <7C1177A3-F9C6-43EA-8F0F-A732BA84369F@chavez.ws>
Message-ID: <200604270920.50725.matt@eisgr.com>

Alticor has a lot of Java running here... but we've done little development of 
it.  616-787-6000

On Wednesday 26 April 2006 16:24, Joe Chavez wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 08:13:46 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Apr 28 06:42:40 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Grand Rapids :- Java Positions
Message-ID: <f9688a930604280413h7909015apcb8bb7dd30d3edb6@mail.gmail.com>

Recently, there was a post from Joe Chavez, regarding positions in the Grand
Rapids Area for Java Developers.  I think that as the Grand Rapids Java User
Group, we should start cultivating relationships with various organizations
in order to be "in the know" of what companies / head hunters we recommend
for Java Positions in GR.  I feel that this is one of the biggest services
that we can provide as the Java Community of Grand Rapids.

Let me know your thoughts?

Thanks
Carlus
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From vasiliy.gagin at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 10:25:01 2006
From: vasiliy.gagin at gmail.com (Vasiliy Gagin)
Date: Sat Apr 29 08:53:52 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Grand Rapids :- Java Positions
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930604280413h7909015apcb8bb7dd30d3edb6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930604280413h7909015apcb8bb7dd30d3edb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70376cf00604290625t33c7d9f0kb03e9e9355e6cf50@mail.gmail.com>

We can think about maintaining list of Java shops we know in the area may be
public pages for members.
Also mailing is fine, but if we have enough hardware , it would be nicer if
we can create a forum.

On 4/28/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Recently, there was a post from Joe Chavez, regarding positions in the
> Grand Rapids Area for Java Developers.  I think that as the Grand Rapids
> Java User Group, we should start cultivating relationships with various
> organizations in order to be "in the know" of what companies / head hunters
> we recommend for Java Positions in GR.  I feel that this is one of the
> biggest services that we can provide as the Java Community of Grand Rapids.
>
>
> Let me know your thoughts?
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May  9 07:16:16 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue May  9 05:44:50 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Sun JUG
Message-ID: <f9688a930605090316l5967f6o81ba8543ef226e6e@mail.gmail.com>

Another thing that needs to be updated is the java.sun.com java user group
information.  Does someone have the ability to update this information:

http://developers.sun.com/jugs/display/north_america/usa/michigan/grand_rapids

Thanks
Carlus
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed May 10 06:47:06 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed May 10 05:15:33 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meetup
Message-ID: <f9688a930605100247u7f926c88ydfe3138f7986469c@mail.gmail.com>

Have you ever heard of Meetup?  Check it out here:

http://www.meetup.com/

The basic idea is that you can advertise your group through this tool and
anyone searching for any meeetings will be able to find it and see who is
involved and things of that nature.  I am wondering if it would be
beneficial for us to use this as another means of marketing?  Does anyone
have any thoughts or concerns on this?

Thanks
Carlus
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From reminders at reply.yahoo.com  Thu May 11 16:26:06 2006
From: reminders at reply.yahoo.com (Yahoo! Reminder)
Date: Fri May 12 07:08:55 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd
	Thursday, 5/18/2006, 6:30 pm
Message-ID: <200605112157.k4BLvKPu022358@gr-jug.org>

 Reminder from the Calendar of grandrapidsjavausersgroup
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal

GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd Thursday
Thursday May 18, 2006
6:30 pm - 9:00 pm
(This event repeats  on the third Thursday of every month.)
(The next reminder for this event will be sent in 6 days, 12 hours, 3 minutes.)
Event Location: Calvin College North Hall 253
City, State, Zip: Grand Rapids, MI

Set up birthday reminders!
 http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal?v=9&evt_type=13

Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From matt at eisgr.com  Fri May 12 16:41:17 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Fri May 12 15:10:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] List DNS issues resolved
Message-ID: <200605121541.21391.matt@eisgr.com>

Hi all,

I'm sorry for the trouble.  It appears my DNS server "lost" the gr-jug.org 
domain.  Recreating it appears to have resolved the issue.  Again, I 
apologize for the inconvenience.  Please resend any messages that have failed 
recently.

Thank you,
Matt

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From phillip9 at hotmail.com  Sat May 13 16:26:28 2006
From: phillip9 at hotmail.com (Phillip)
Date: Mon May 15 08:51:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Re: Special Notice - Mailing List
	changes
In-Reply-To: <e2bhbs+dri7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <e44tr4+tnps@eGroups.com>

Hello,

I'm having trouble with the gr-jug list.  All the messages I have
tried to send to the list since last Friday bounce back as "delivery
failed"  I am sending to the jug@gr-jug.org.  I have been sending the
messages from the email account that I registered on gr-jug.org
(hotmail acct)

It is the email list address that is listed on the website and also on
the subscription notice I received after joining the list.

Also, messages I sent to the the jug-owner@gr-jug.org returned as
"delivery failed" when I first tried reporting this problem.







------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Home is just a click away.? Make Yahoo! your home page now.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/Z_EolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    grandrapidsjavausersgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




From matt at eisgr.com  Mon May 15 17:42:48 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Mon May 15 17:04:25 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Site down, back up
Message-ID: <200605151642.50365.matt@eisgr.com>

Hi all,

We experienced a DNS failure a few days ago, and mail to the site was 
bouncing.  The DNS failure has since been fixed and the lists back online.
Please resend any mail which was bounced back to you.

Thank you,
Matt

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From matt at eisgr.com  Tue May 16 07:28:25 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Tue May 16 05:57:26 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: FW: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-F9637280179986C9D2B3A89EAC0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY111-F9637280179986C9D2B3A89EAC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200605160628.31635.matt@eisgr.com>

Hi Phillip,

I thought I had this working again, but apparently not.
Hang in there please.

Matt

On Friday 12 May 2006 14:42, phillip hebenstreit wrote:
> HI all,
>
> Sorry if you are the wrong person to contact, but you are listed at
> gr-jug.org as one of the gr-jug list owners.
>
> I am a registered list user and I have been trying to send messages (from
> the registered email account) to the following for the past 7 days and all
> messages come back "delivery to the following recipients failed.."  (see
> below for sample)
>
>    both to:
>        jug-owner@gr-jug.org
>        jug@gr-jug.org
>
>
>
> could you help with this problem?
>
>
> thank you,
>
> phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unicode-1-1-utf-7
>
> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
>
> Delivery to the following recipients failed.
>
>        jug@gr-jug.org
>
>
>
> Content-Type: message/delivery-status
>
> Content-Type: message/rfc822
>
> From: phillip hebenstreit <phillip9@hotmail.com>
> To: jug@gr-jug.org
> Subject: concept rounding out
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 12:50 PM
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-Originating-IP: [134.215.204.74]
> X-Originating-Email: [phillip9@hotmail.com]
> X-Sender: phillip9@hotmail.com
> Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
> Fri, 12 May 2006 09:50:09 -0700
> Received: from 64.4.17.200 by by111fd.bay111.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Fri,
> 12 May 2006 16:50:06 GMT
> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2006 16:50:09.0845 (UTC)
> FILETIME=[214EE650:01C675E4]
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a question about a java project I would like to do for work.
>
> Before doing anything, can I create a stand alone java applications that is
> not hosted as a web-application?
>
> I will not have a webserver or database server to use for this project, but
> I need to link to a MS Access 2002 Database as a backend.  I will not have
> access to any dedicated machines to use as any type of database server, I'm
> trying but I have to fight for everything.
>
> I need to create a few custom forms for data entry & data display and then
> be able to print them out, so that they look like the original forms,
> letter size on white paper.
>
> As of right now work will only install java 1.4.
>
> I've read some info on the internet saying the printing in Java is
> complicated, how hard would it be to create forms & print them from Java.
>
> Based on this limited list of specifications would I be able to use java
> 1.4 to accomplish this project?  If you need more information from me
> please let me know.
>
> At this point and having to fight for so much, I wonder if I should just
> leave them with the existing Access 2002 database they use now for contact
> management & correspondences tracking.  Any constructive ideas?
>
> Systems:
> Pentium 4's
> Windows XP pro
> 512 ram, etc..
> HP laserjets & Dell LaserPrinters
>
>
>
>
> From: postmaster@mail.hotmail.com
> To: phillip9@hotmail.com
> Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
> Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 10:25:51 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Received: from omc2-s33.bay6.hotmail.com ([65.54.249.43]) by
> bay0-mc3-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 12
> May 2006 10:31:09 -0700
> Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.17.25]) by omc2-s33.bay6.hotmail.com with
> Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 12 May 2006 10:26:50 -0700
> X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt3660MmjhEvYg2f34OAemlKzcFTDr4bF5s=
> X-DSNContext: 7ce717b1 - 1196 - 00000002 - 00000000
> Return-Path: <>
> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2006 17:26:50.0507 (UTC)
> FILETIME=[410145B0:01C675E9]
>
> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
>
> Delivery to the following recipients failed.
>
>         jug-owner@gr-jug.org

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From matt at eisgr.com  Tue May 16 12:00:44 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Tue May 16 10:50:53 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] testing again.
Message-ID: <200605161100.49284.matt@eisgr.com>

If you get this, the list is indeed working.
Please resend any messages which did not come through.

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed May 17 11:05:09 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed May 17 09:33:19 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Yahoo Mailing List
Message-ID: <f9688a930605170705h6cce7749qbbe2ab01cb5f1d@mail.gmail.com>

I am not going to be able to make the meeeting this Thursday.  I will be out
of town.

I would like to shut down the Yahoo mailing list.  I still feel that it is
very confusing to have multiple mailing lists and it is much better to just
have one.  Earlier we decided that it would be best to use the mailman list
as oppose to the yahoo mailing list. Assuming that this is the way that we
want to go, I would like to close the other mailing list by June's meeting
date.

Part of the June Meeting Announcement from the Yahoo Mailing List is that
the mailing list will be shutdown at the time as well.  We can include
instructions on how to subscribe to the new mailing list.

If there are any thoughts or questions regarding this, please let me know.

Thanks
Carlus
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From kadams at gfs.com  Wed May 17 12:13:55 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Wed May 17 10:42:12 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Yahoo Mailing List
Message-ID: <s46b057b.062@mail2.gfs.com>

> I would like to shut down the Yahoo mailing list.

+1

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From joe.chavez at chavez.ws  Wed May 17 11:20:57 2006
From: joe.chavez at chavez.ws (Joe Chavez)
Date: Wed May 17 12:49:19 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Yahoo Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605170705h6cce7749qbbe2ab01cb5f1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930605170705h6cce7749qbbe2ab01cb5f1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <197F127E-419C-4D57-8E24-C89C3C5245DF@chavez.ws>


On May 17, 2006, at 7:05 AM, Carlus Henry wrote:

>
> I would like to shut down the Yahoo mailing list.

+1
----
iTunes Now Playing: http://www.chavez.ws/nowplaying.html


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From reminders at reply.yahoo.com  Thu May 18 04:25:35 2006
From: reminders at reply.yahoo.com (Yahoo! Reminder)
Date: Thu May 18 08:19:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd
	Thursday, 5/18/2006, 6:30 pm
Message-ID: <200605181000.k4IA0H70018105@gr-jug.org>

 Reminder from the Calendar of grandrapidsjavausersgroup
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal

GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd Thursday
Thursday May 18, 2006
6:30 pm - 9:00 pm
(This event repeats  on the third Thursday of every month.)
Event Location: Calvin College North Hall 253
City, State, Zip: Grand Rapids, MI

Set up birthday reminders!
 http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal?v=9&evt_type=13

Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From dave at brondsema.net  Thu May 18 18:47:06 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Thu May 18 17:15:37 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Yahoo Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605170705h6cce7749qbbe2ab01cb5f1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930605170705h6cce7749qbbe2ab01cb5f1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <446CEB5A.4000708@brondsema.net>

Carlus Henry wrote:
> I am not going to be able to make the meeeting this Thursday.  I will be
> out of town.
>

Nor, I, unfortunately.

> I would like to shut down the Yahoo mailing list.  I still feel that it
> is very confusing to have multiple mailing lists and it is much better
> to just have one.  Earlier we decided that it would be best to use the
> mailman list as oppose to the yahoo mailing list. Assuming that this is
> the way that we want to go, I would like to close the other mailing list
> by June's meeting date.
>
> Part of the June Meeting Announcement from the Yahoo Mailing List is
> that the mailing list will be shutdown at the time as well.  We can
> include instructions on how to subscribe to the new mailing list.

+1

> If there are any thoughts or questions regarding this, please let me know.

I will work on setting up reminder emails to the gr-jug.org mailing
list, when I return from my travels.

To let everyone know, I've taken on some sysadmin responsibilities for
gr-jug.  Just website and mailing list at this point.


--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From keithh at ntbtrk.com  Fri May 19 10:32:56 2006
From: keithh at ntbtrk.com (Keith Hinkle)
Date: Fri May 19 14:20:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 5-18 meeting
Message-ID: <38EC78772197ED408B22093F1B5A24C07CB158@NTBAD.NATION.LAN>

I was the only person there last night from 6:20 to 6:40pm.  Am I on the
wrong mailing list :-)???


Keith Hinkle
Director of ITS
616-878-5563
www.ntbtrk.com


-----Original Message-----
From: jug-bounces@gr-jug.org [mailto:jug-bounces@gr-jug.org] On Behalf
Of Dave Brondsema
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:47 PM
To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List
Subject: Re: [GR-Jug] Yahoo Mailing List

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
Please see the bottom of this message for information on
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May 23 08:54:18 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue May 23 07:22:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] JavaOne...were you there?
Message-ID: <f9688a930605230454sd916219qbfd01e570873ed8@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everyone,

Did anyone from the group go to JavaOne?  How was it?  What was one of the
biggest take aways that you got from it.

Later,
Carlus
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May 23 09:08:49 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue May 23 07:36:45 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?
Message-ID: <f9688a930605230508t27f18836v7fd4594946850db@mail.gmail.com>

TEST-ONLY

Is there still something wrong with the gr-jug mailing list?

I just tried sending an email through there and I just got a bounce back.  I
am sending this email to both the yahoo group and the gr-jug mailing list.
Just to make sure that both work......
-------------- next part --------------
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From keithh at ntbtrk.com  Tue May 23 09:11:45 2006
From: keithh at ntbtrk.com (Keith Hinkle)
Date: Tue May 23 07:39:41 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?
Message-ID: <38EC78772197ED408B22093F1B5A24C08E2A2F@NTBAD.NATION.LAN>

I got this one and the one asking about java one.


Keith Hinkle
Director of ITS
616-878-5563
www.ntbtrk.com


-----Original Message-----
From: jug-bounces@gr-jug.org [mailto:jug-bounces@gr-jug.org] On Behalf
Of Carlus Henry
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:09 AM
To: grandrapidsjavausersgroup@yahoogroups.com; Grand Rapids Java Users
Group Mailing List
Subject: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
Please see the bottom of this message for information on
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May 23 09:08:49 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue May 23 07:40:56 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List
	Problems?
Message-ID: <f9688a930605230508t27f18836v7fd4594946850db@mail.gmail.com>

TEST-ONLY

Is there still something wrong with the gr-jug mailing list?

I just tried sending an email through there and I just got a bounce back.  I
am sending this email to both the yahoo group and the gr-jug mailing list.
Just to make sure that both work......


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May 23 09:13:47 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue May 23 07:41:45 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?
In-Reply-To: <38EC78772197ED408B22093F1B5A24C08E2A2F@NTBAD.NATION.LAN>
References: <38EC78772197ED408B22093F1B5A24C08E2A2F@NTBAD.NATION.LAN>
Message-ID: <f9688a930605230513k460fa13bw3a9310eefc8b674a@mail.gmail.com>

Okay great.....

I am not sure what is bouncing then......oh well......thanks again.

Carlus

On 5/23/06, Keith Hinkle <keithh@ntbtrk.com> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> I got this one and the one asking about java one.
>
>
> Keith Hinkle
> Director of ITS
> 616-878-5563
> www.ntbtrk.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jug-bounces@gr-jug.org [mailto:jug-bounces@gr-jug.org] On Behalf
> Of Carlus Henry
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:09 AM
> To: grandrapidsjavausersgroup@yahoogroups.com; Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group Mailing List
> Subject: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
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From Matt.Carpenter at alticor.com  Tue May 23 09:20:53 2006
From: Matt.Carpenter at alticor.com (Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com)
Date: Tue May 23 07:48:58 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605230513k460fa13bw3a9310eefc8b674a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF1EABD815.8DE16CF4-ON85257177.0043B31C-04257177.0043CBD7@mailrouter.net>

Somebody from AMSECO, I believe.  Look at the bounce message.  I've 
received a bounce from them every email I've sent.
There are two members from there.  Would the REAL Amseco employee please 
speak up?  We can then unsub the other person.

 
Matthew Carpenter
IT Security Specialist
Alticor Corporation
Phone: 616-787-0287
Email: matt.carpenter@alticor.com
Page Me (230 characters Max)
Email ITSS On-Call Account


-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY FINGERPRINT-----
PGP Fingerprint: 52C3 328D C29C 178B 2DFD 9EA8 C710 0042 8CB4 3CDB
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY FINGERPRINT-----




"Carlus Henry" <carlushenry@gmail.com> 
Sent by: jug-bounces@gr-jug.org
05/23/2006 08:13 AM
Please respond to
Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List <jug@gr-jug.org>


To
"Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List" <jug@gr-jug.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?






You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list. 
Please see the bottom of this message for information on 
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------
Okay great.....

I am not sure what is bouncing then......oh well......thanks again.

Carlus

On 5/23/06, Keith Hinkle < keithh@ntbtrk.com> wrote:
You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list. 
Please see the bottom of this message for information on 
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------
I got this one and the one asking about java one.


Keith Hinkle 
Director of ITS
616-878-5563
www.ntbtrk.com


-----Original Message-----
From: jug-bounces@gr-jug.org [mailto: jug-bounces@gr-jug.org] On Behalf
Of Carlus Henry
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:09 AM
To: grandrapidsjavausersgroup@yahoogroups.com; Grand Rapids Java Users 
Group Mailing List
Subject: [GR-Jug] TEST-ONLY :- GRJUG Mailling List Problems?

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
Please see the bottom of this message for information on 
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org 
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May 23 14:18:01 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue May 23 12:45:59 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: May I join your group?
In-Reply-To: <20060522212831.68778.qmail@web513.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060522212831.68778.qmail@web513.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930605231018n20163682m1552ead59db51e6d@mail.gmail.com>

Someone wants to offer their newsletter to the group from manning
publications......what do you think?

Thanks
Carlus

On 5/22/06, Helen Trimes <booknews@manning.com> wrote:
>
> I am the marketing director of Manning Publications
> and I  manage the user group program here. May I join
> your group so I can send you the newsletter? If you
> prefer, please send me an alternate email not on the
> yahoogroups domain.
>
> Please reply to hetr@manning.com or
> htrimes@manning.com. I mostly use the
> booknews@manning.com email address for outgoing mail.
>
> Helen Trimes
> Marketing Director
> Manning Publications Co.
>
>
>
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May 23 14:18:01 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue May 23 12:50:21 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Re: May I join your group?
In-Reply-To: <20060522212831.68778.qmail@web513.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060522212831.68778.qmail@web513.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930605231018n20163682m1552ead59db51e6d@mail.gmail.com>

Someone wants to offer their newsletter to the group from manning
publications......what do you think?

Thanks
Carlus

On 5/22/06, Helen Trimes <booknews@manning.com> wrote:
>
> I am the marketing director of Manning Publications
> and I  manage the user group program here. May I join
> your group so I can send you the newsletter? If you
> prefer, please send me an alternate email not on the
> yahoogroups domain.
>
> Please reply to hetr@manning.com or
> htrimes@manning.com. I mostly use the
> booknews@manning.com email address for outgoing mail.
>
> Helen Trimes
> Marketing Director
> Manning Publications Co.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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From kadams at gfs.com  Tue May 23 14:41:31 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Tue May 23 13:09:45 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: May I join your group?
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605231018n20163682m1552ead59db51e6d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060522212831.68778.qmail@web513.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<f9688a930605231018n20163682m1552ead59db51e6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4473110B0200000700135A1B@mail2.gfs.com>

> Someone wants to offer their newsletter to the group from manning
publications......what do you think? <

-1

Slightly OT: I thought the Yahoo mailing list was dead?

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From kadams at gfs.com  Tue May 23 14:49:52 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Tue May 23 13:18:03 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] JavaOne...were you there?
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605230454sd916219qbfd01e570873ed8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930605230454sd916219qbfd01e570873ed8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <447313000200000700135A4C@mail2.gfs.com>

We had some folks from GFS attend.  I haven't been able to talk with
anyone yet, but what I've heard is that mobile was big.  Personally I
wish I'd been able to go to the Ajax frameworks smackdown.  IMO, the
Birds of a Feather (smaller informal give-and-take sessions, usually
late at night) and the smackdowns are the best sessions at JavaOne.  I
could do without the rest :-)

For those who weren't there...

Webcasts: http://java.sun.com/javaone/sf/sessions/general/index.jsp 
PDFs of Presentations:
https://www28.cplan.com/javaone06_cv_124_1/sessions_catalog.jsp?ip=yes
(username/password at the bottom of the page)

I'm also curious if anyone is planning on attending some of the other
conferences throughout the year: OSCON, ETech, etc.

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue May 23 14:05:25 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed May 24 08:51:11 2006
Subject: [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Fwd: [GR-Jug] 5-18 meeting
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605231004i29672b3dged80b463e46420e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38EC78772197ED408B22093F1B5A24C07CB158@NTBAD.NATION.LAN>
	 <f9688a930605231004i29672b3dged80b463e46420e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930605231005u71302171vcd363631e156a69e@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: Fwd: [GR-Jug] 5-18 meeting
To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List <jug@gr-jug.org>

What happened with the meeting last week?  Did anyone show up?  Did Jeremy
G. do his presentation on Subversion?

Carlus


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Keith Hinkle <keithh@ntbtrk.com>
Date: May 19, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: [GR-Jug] 5-18 meeting
To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List < jug@gr-jug.org>

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
Please see the bottom of this message for information on
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------
I was the only person there last night from 6:20 to 6:40pm.  Am I on the
wrong mailing list :-)???


Keith Hinkle
Director of ITS
616-878-5563
www.ntbtrk.com


-----Original Message-----
From: jug-bounces@gr-jug.org [mailto:jug-bounces@gr-jug.org] On Behalf
Of Dave Brondsema
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:47 PM
To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List
Subject: Re: [GR-Jug] Yahoo Mailing List

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
Please see the bottom of this message for information on
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed May 24 16:46:25 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed May 24 15:14:29 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
Message-ID: <f9688a930605241246j11c21271o429d707b6bfcce75@mail.gmail.com>

Well, here it is.  The age old question when is it appropriate to use Java
and J2EE vs. PHP, Ruby, Python, or some other interpreted language?

Being the vetran developer that I am (tongue in cheeck comment), I am
wondering if it makes more sense to use one of the lighter languages for
some of the problems that J2EE has been known to solve.  There are some
incredible time, cost, effort savings that come with a simpler technology.

So let's begin...

1.)  When is it more appropriate to use Java vs PHP?
2.)  What projects have you chosen to use Java instead of PHP? PHP instead
of Java?
3.)  What were the determining factors that helped you with your decision?

Please fill in PHP with your flavor of language (Ruby, Python,
Perl....whatever have you).

Carlus
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From kadams at gfs.com  Wed May 24 17:09:20 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Wed May 24 15:37:25 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605241246j11c21271o429d707b6bfcce75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930605241246j11c21271o429d707b6bfcce75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <447485300200000700136F30@mail2.gfs.com>

If I had my druthers...

if (criticality < mission critical) { use PHP }
else { use Java }

That's assuming you're in a sufficiently large business.  Small to
medium businesses could probably use PHP/Java/whatever for everything.

Other factors:

* Existing skillset within IT
* The technology used for existing open source and commercial
solutions

That's just a quick brush at a complex question.

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From Matt.Carpenter at alticor.com  Wed May 24 17:17:45 2006
From: Matt.Carpenter at alticor.com (Matt.Carpenter@alticor.com)
Date: Wed May 24 15:45:45 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
In-Reply-To: <447485300200000700136F30@mail2.gfs.com>
Message-ID: <OF603B8AE8.EC55D626-ON85257178.006F21CC-04257178.006F74A3@mailrouter.net>

The larger the company, the more technologies seem to be in play.
Still, there is always a push to simplify and leverage existing skillsets.

I would say that the PHP/Java split would be much more doable at a 
mid-sized company than a large one.  That said, I would recommend using 
Java for the whole kit and cabootle, for large companies, since it gives 
you JSP's, Servlets, and simply a great deal of library manageability 
(hierarchical) and automated documentation.  Different projects use 
different technologies, but within "project families", if you will, you're 
more likely to stick with one unless there is some compelling business 
reason to combine them.

There are many other factors, many of which support this direction, but I 
have to leave.

Have a great one.
Matt

From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Thu May 25 15:47:16 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Thu May 25 14:16:12 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
Message-ID: <"H0000906017a52f8.1148582836.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

First, I want to apologize for not being there to present on Subversion at the last meeting - but from what I heard, it would have been pretty short anyways.

Also, is there still any insight into the possibility of changing day/time of the meetings?

So, on to the question of JEE or PHP.

I guess it doesn't really matter since you can run PHP on JEE, and it's faster too :)
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38144

And since support for dynamic languages is being added to Java (http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=292), the need for these other languages becomes moot.  Just look at what we already have available - Jython, JRuby, Beanshell, Groovy, etc.  They give you the power of Java with the faster development time of these other languages.  Hell, you can now (almost) run rails in JRuby (http://headius.blogspot.com/2006/05/and-they-said-jruby-was-dead.html, http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=109).

I will say that I like Groovy a lot.  Normally if I needed a script to connect to a database and generate a plain text file I might use Perl, but Groovy does it in the same amount of code or less.  And I personally think that Grails is going to give Rails a run for it's money.

JG

From Linda_VanZee at quixtar.com  Thu May 25 17:16:44 2006
From: Linda_VanZee at quixtar.com (Linda_VanZee@quixtar.com)
Date: Thu May 25 15:44:39 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Linda VanZee is out of the office until Thursday 4/13.
Message-ID: <OF2E380029.9FF06401-ON85257179.006F6568-85257179.006F656A@mailrouter.net>


I will be out of the office starting  05/25/2006 and will not return until
05/30/2006.

I will respond to your message as soon as I can.
 If you need assistance right away, please try my pager at 230-1506.
Thank you.

From Linda_VanZee at Quixtar.com  Fri May 26 11:07:15 2006
From: Linda_VanZee at Quixtar.com (Linda_VanZee@Quixtar.com)
Date: Fri May 26 09:35:19 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Linda VanZee is out of the office until Tuesday 5/30.
Message-ID: <OF489D6CAC.BCAEBCA0-ON8525717A.004D91AD-8525717A.004D91AE@mailrouter.net>


I will be out of the office starting  05/25/2006 and will not return until
05/30/2006.

I will respond to your message as soon as I can.
 If you need assistance right away, please try my pager at 230-1506.
Thank you.

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri May 26 13:41:23 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri May 26 12:09:49 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
In-Reply-To: <H0000906017a52f8.1148582836.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*@MHS>
References: <H0000906017a52f8.1148582836.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*@MHS>
Message-ID: <f9688a930605260941i7a22ccbdie36a5ac77a84c7da@mail.gmail.com>

JG,

Thanks for sharing such great and a wealth of information.  I am very
excited with the possibilities of running a dynamic typed / scripting
language like PHP in the JEE environment.

I am curious.  I would like to hear more about why you think that Groovy is
going to rival Ruby on Rails? or even PHP for that matter?  Well, I am
wondering if you think that the early adoption of Ruby is going to be a
roadblock to the adoption of Groovy.

Does anyone else have an opinion of Groovy and whether they like it or not?
Is anyone using the new scripting languages professionally (PHP, Ruby,
Groovy)?

Thanks
Carlus

On 5/25/06, jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us <jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us>
wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> First, I want to apologize for not being there to present on Subversion at
> the last meeting - but from what I heard, it would have been pretty short
> anyways.
>
> Also, is there still any insight into the possibility of changing day/time
> of the meetings?
>
> So, on to the question of JEE or PHP.
>
> I guess it doesn't really matter since you can run PHP on JEE, and it's
> faster too :)
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38144
>
> And since support for dynamic languages is being added to Java (
> http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=292), the need for these other languages
> becomes moot.  Just look at what we already have available - Jython, JRuby,
> Beanshell, Groovy, etc.  They give you the power of Java with the faster
> development time of these other languages.  Hell, you can now (almost) run
> rails in JRuby (
> http://headius.blogspot.com/2006/05/and-they-said-jruby-was-dead.html,
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=109).
>
> I will say that I like Groovy a lot.  Normally if I needed a script to
> connect to a database and generate a plain text file I might use Perl, but
> Groovy does it in the same amount of code or less.  And I personally think
> that Grails is going to give Rails a run for it's money.
>
> JG
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
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From kadams at gfs.com  Fri May 26 14:20:26 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Fri May 26 12:48:31 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605260941i7a22ccbdie36a5ac77a84c7da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <H0000906017a52f8.1148582836.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*@MHS>
	<f9688a930605260941i7a22ccbdie36a5ac77a84c7da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4477009A0200000700138E45@mail2.gfs.com>

Groovy: Groovy seems like re-inventing the wheel to me, especially when
we already have mature (which Groovy is not) scripting languages like
BeanShell and Javascript (Rhino).  The disclaimer is that I've never
used Groovy, but many of the people I've talked to have expressed
serious reservations about it.

The feeling I got was that a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon at
the beginning, they implemented some whiz-bang features, but no one
bothered creating a solid core.  Consequently work slowed to a crawl as
the whiz-bang aspect faded because no one wanted to take on the
boring-but-necessary parts of creating a language.  Does anyone know
what the current state of the Groovy project is?  Is there still a
healthy amount of activity and progress towards a final 1.0?

I know that Dave Brondsema did an evaluation of various scripting
languages in the Java world awhile back, so I'd be curious to hear his
perspective...

One final word: I'm much more skeptical about running scripting
languages inside the JVM.  Problems: the overhead of the JVM (primarily
memory), lagtime behind the "real" scripting language, minor deviations
in functionality, etc.  I see scripting in the JVM as a nice tool in the
box for existing Java apps, but not as a replacement for the native
scripting environments.  If I'm writing a Rails app, it's going to be
running in native Ruby served up via WebBrick or FastCGI.  I don't want
the headache of dealing with "well I found instructions for doing it
this way, but JRuby hasn't implemented that yet [or: it works
differently]."  I have enough of that stuff running a Mac (both with PC
and Linux software) :-)

If I'm evaluating what language to use at the beginning of a project,
I'm still going to lean towards scripting languages outside of the JVM
for lighterweight work.  The primary practical use of scripting within
the JVM (as I see it) is in providing easy extension points for app
functionality.  Example: using Python scripting to extend the
functionality of WinCVS.

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From dave at brondsema.net  Tue May 30 22:13:21 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue May 30 20:41:21 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
In-Reply-To: <4477009A0200000700138E45@mail2.gfs.com>
References: <H0000906017a52f8.1148582836.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*@MHS>
	<f9688a930605260941i7a22ccbdie36a5ac77a84c7da@mail.gmail.com>
	<4477009A0200000700138E45@mail2.gfs.com>
Message-ID: <447CEDB1.10008@brondsema.net>

Kyle Adams wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> Groovy: Groovy seems like re-inventing the wheel to me, especially when
> we already have mature (which Groovy is not) scripting languages like
> BeanShell and Javascript (Rhino).  The disclaimer is that I've never
> used Groovy, but many of the people I've talked to have expressed
> serious reservations about it.
>
> The feeling I got was that a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon at
> the beginning, they implemented some whiz-bang features, but no one
> bothered creating a solid core.  Consequently work slowed to a crawl as
> the whiz-bang aspect faded because no one wanted to take on the
> boring-but-necessary parts of creating a language.  Does anyone know
> what the current state of the Groovy project is?  Is there still a
> healthy amount of activity and progress towards a final 1.0?
>
> I know that Dave Brondsema did an evaluation of various scripting
> languages in the Java world awhile back, so I'd be curious to hear his
> perspective...
>

I did?  :-)  It was long long ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

My closest recollection to that was determining which scripting language
to use within a <script> task [1] in Ant.  (Ant xml is better for
declarative build processes, not real programming)  There were several
choices [2] I think I settled on Rhino, a JavaScript implementation in
Java.  I don't remember why.  It worked well enough, but was a pain to
debug, probably due to the fact that that scriptlets were in a XML file,
and executed through Ant.  That is to say, it wasn't a very simple
environment and error messages didn't pass through very well.

[1] http://ant.apache.org/manual/OptionalTasks/script.html
[2] http://jakarta.apache.org/bsf/

To the original question, at Cornerstone University we run a real small
software shop: one Java developer (me), one PHP/web developer, and one
Access/VB programmer.  I'd like to see a lot of it standardize into one
language for shared skillset/training/etc purposes.  But when it comes
down to choices, PHP is a lot easier to do simple things in than Java
is.  So we've done simple (often unique) web apps in PHP, and in Java
we've done our webapps that are large and complex or that share common
functionality with several other webapps.

> One final word: I'm much more skeptical about running scripting
> languages inside the JVM.  Problems: the overhead of the JVM (primarily
> memory), lagtime behind the "real" scripting language, minor deviations
> in functionality, etc.  I see scripting in the JVM as a nice tool in the
> box for existing Java apps, but not as a replacement for the native
> scripting environments.  If I'm writing a Rails app, it's going to be
> running in native Ruby served up via WebBrick or FastCGI.  I don't want
> the headache of dealing with "well I found instructions for doing it
> this way, but JRuby hasn't implemented that yet [or: it works
> differently]."  I have enough of that stuff running a Mac (both with PC
> and Linux software) :-)
>
> If I'm evaluating what language to use at the beginning of a project,
> I'm still going to lean towards scripting languages outside of the JVM
> for lighterweight work.  The primary practical use of scripting within
> the JVM (as I see it) is in providing easy extension points for app
> functionality.  Example: using Python scripting to extend the
> functionality of WinCVS.
>
> Kyle
>
> _____
>
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>


--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From dave at brondsema.net  Tue May 30 22:16:53 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue May 30 20:44:41 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 5-18 meeting
In-Reply-To: <38EC78772197ED408B22093F1B5A24C07CB158@NTBAD.NATION.LAN>
References: <38EC78772197ED408B22093F1B5A24C07CB158@NTBAD.NATION.LAN>
Message-ID: <447CEE85.40909@brondsema.net>

Keith Hinkle wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> I was the only person there last night from 6:20 to 6:40pm.  Am I on the
> wrong mailing list :-)???
>

Sorry, Keith.  If you haven't been on the list long, you should know
we're a very small group, and have been talking about changing times
too.  Archives at http://gr-jug.org/pipermail/jug/

That said, see jgerrits' post to the "[J2EE or PHP]" thread if you
haven't yet.

--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed May 31 08:33:23 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed May 31 07:01:04 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meetup
Message-ID: <f9688a930605310433k3ac91de7pa8ee979536582aaf@mail.gmail.com>

I have been looking at other groups in the Grand Rapids area and I have
found a couple that are using the Meetup service for marketing purposes.
Meetup seems like a great way to market the GRJUG to the masses in Grand
Rapids.

One of the services that they provide is the event management.  You can
schedule an event and it has a system that allows people to RSVP that event
or say that they are not going to be able to attend.  This will help us plan
for our meetings.

http://www.meetup.com/

http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/mi/grand_rapids/

What are your thoughts about the Meetup Service.  Is this something that we
should look into incorporating?

FYI - they will be going down for service today at 9:00a.m. --
figures.....hehehe

Thanks
Carlus
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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Wed May 31 08:40:32 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Wed May 31 07:08:11 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meetup
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605310433k3ac91de7pa8ee979536582aaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930605310433k3ac91de7pa8ee979536582aaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <447D80B0.4070103@envoisolutions.com>

FWIW, I've participated in the urban explorer group on meetup.com and 
the site worked real well. I would highly recommend using it. The only 
downside to me is that I think at some point they charge a monthly fee 
of like $10/mo.

- Dan

Carlus Henry wrote:

>You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
>Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>------------------------------------------
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have been looking at other groups in the Grand Rapids area and I 
> have found a couple that are using the Meetup service for marketing 
> purposes.  Meetup seems like a great way to market the GRJUG to the 
> masses in Grand Rapids. 
>
> One of the services that they provide is the event management.  You 
> can schedule an event and it has a system that allows people to RSVP 
> that event or say that they are not going to be able to attend.  This 
> will help us plan for our meetings.
>
> http://www.meetup.com/
>
> http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/mi/grand_rapids/
>
> What are your thoughts about the Meetup Service.  Is this something 
> that we should look into incorporating?
>
> FYI - they will be going down for service today at 9:00a.m. -- 
> figures.....hehehe
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Jug mailing list
>Jug@gr-jug.org
>Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>  
>


-- 
Dan Diephouse
(616) 971-2053
Envoi Solutions LLC
http://netzooid.com

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed May 31 08:52:51 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed May 31 07:20:31 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meetup
In-Reply-To: <447D80B0.4070103@envoisolutions.com>
References: <f9688a930605310433k3ac91de7pa8ee979536582aaf@mail.gmail.com>
	 <447D80B0.4070103@envoisolutions.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930605310452t2ff9b3dtfa063af068c44d39@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, scratch that then......

I am not willing to pay money for a service that we can develop...... :-)

Carlus

On 5/31/06, Dan Diephouse <dan@envoisolutions.com> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> FWIW, I've participated in the urban explorer group on meetup.com and
> the site worked real well. I would highly recommend using it. The only
> downside to me is that I think at some point they charge a monthly fee
> of like $10/mo.
>
> - Dan
>
> Carlus Henry wrote:
>
> >You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> >Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> >------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I have been looking at other groups in the Grand Rapids area and I
> > have found a couple that are using the Meetup service for marketing
> > purposes.  Meetup seems like a great way to market the GRJUG to the
> > masses in Grand Rapids.
> >
> > One of the services that they provide is the event management.  You
> > can schedule an event and it has a system that allows people to RSVP
> > that event or say that they are not going to be able to attend.  This
> > will help us plan for our meetings.
> >
> > http://www.meetup.com/
> >
> > http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/mi/grand_rapids/
> >
> > What are your thoughts about the Meetup Service.  Is this something
> > that we should look into incorporating?
> >
> > FYI - they will be going down for service today at 9:00a.m. --
> > figures.....hehehe
> >
> > Thanks
> > Carlus
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Jug mailing list
> >Jug@gr-jug.org
> >Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Diephouse
> (616) 971-2053
> Envoi Solutions LLC
> http://netzooid.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Wed May 31 09:26:47 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Wed May 31 07:54:31 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meetup
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930605310452t2ff9b3dtfa063af068c44d39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930605310433k3ac91de7pa8ee979536582aaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<447D80B0.4070103@envoisolutions.com>
	<f9688a930605310452t2ff9b3dtfa063af068c44d39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <447D8B87.6050501@envoisolutions.com>

Ah, but for $10/mo for the whole group, you really can't go wrong. 
Beside I'm sure we can get some corporate sponsor to pay! I'll chip in a 
few months.
- Dan

Carlus Henry wrote:

>You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
>Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>------------------------------------------
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Okay, scratch that then......
>
> I am not willing to pay money for a service that we can develop...... :-)
>
> Carlus
>
> On 5/31/06, *Dan Diephouse* < dan@envoisolutions.com 
> <mailto:dan@envoisolutions.com>> wrote:
>
>     You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>     Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>     unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>     ------------------------------------------
>     FWIW, I've participated in the urban explorer group on meetup.com
>     <http://meetup.com> and
>     the site worked real well. I would highly recommend using it. The only
>     downside to me is that I think at some point they charge a monthly fee
>     of like $10/mo.
>
>     - Dan
>
>     Carlus Henry wrote:
>
>     >You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>     >Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>     unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>     >------------------------------------------
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     > I have been looking at other groups in the Grand Rapids area and I
>     > have found a couple that are using the Meetup service for marketing
>     > purposes.  Meetup seems like a great way to market the GRJUG to the
>     > masses in Grand Rapids.
>     >
>     > One of the services that they provide is the event management.  You
>     > can schedule an event and it has a system that allows people to
>     RSVP
>     > that event or say that they are not going to be able to
>     attend.  This
>     > will help us plan for our meetings.
>     >
>     > http://www.meetup.com/
>     >
>     > http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/mi/grand_rapids/
>     >
>     > What are your thoughts about the Meetup Service.  Is this something
>     > that we should look into incorporating?
>     >
>     > FYI - they will be going down for service today at 9: 00a.m. --
>     > figures.....hehehe
>     >
>     > Thanks
>     > Carlus
>     >
>     >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     >_______________________________________________
>     >Jug mailing list
>     >Jug@gr-jug.org <mailto:Jug@gr-jug.org>
>     >Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>     >
>     >
>
>
>     --
>     Dan Diephouse
>     (616) 971-2053
>     Envoi Solutions LLC
>     http://netzooid.com
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Jug mailing list
>     Jug@gr-jug.org <mailto:Jug@gr-jug.org>
>     Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Jug mailing list
>Jug@gr-jug.org
>Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>  
>


-- 
Dan Diephouse
(616) 971-2053
Envoi Solutions LLC
http://netzooid.com

From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Wed May 31 14:20:08 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Wed May 31 12:48:30 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [J2EE or PHP]
Message-ID: <"H0000906017ead3d.1149096008.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

I felt that I needed to respond, so here goes.

Before I get started though, I want to point out that the original question was related to web apps, PHP vs. JEE.  I only brought up command-line based scripting because of the recent experience I've had with Groovy.

>Groovy: Groovy seems like re-inventing the wheel to me, especially when
>we already have mature (which Groovy is not) scripting languages like
>BeanShell and Javascript (Rhino).  The disclaimer is that I've never
>used Groovy, but many of the people I've talked to have expressed
>serious reservations about it.

I totally understand where you're coming from and I too have issues with using software/programming languages when they haven't yet even reached 1.0. I haven't used either BeanShell or Rhino yet so I'm not sure how they work with servlets or JSPs - we are talking about web apps.

>The feeling I got was that a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon at
>the beginning, they implemented some whiz-bang features, but no one
>bothered creating a solid core.  Consequently work slowed to a crawl as
>the whiz-bang aspect faded because no one wanted to take on the
>boring-but-necessary parts of creating a language.  Does anyone know
>what the current state of the Groovy project is?  Is there still a
>healthy amount of activity and progress towards a final 1.0?

As far as Groovy is concerned, it's alive and kicking.  Hell, it was mentioned in 6 different sessions at JavaOne (http://glaforge.free.fr/weblog/index.php?itemid=172).  It's even a spec and has its own JSR (http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=241).  So far it's currently on track as far as the roadmap is concerned (http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GROOVY/Roadmap) though it might be delayed due to the issues that Codehaus has been having lately.

>I know that Dave Brondsema did an evaluation of various scripting
>languages in the Java world awhile back, so I'd be curious to hear his
>perspective...
>
>One final word: I'm much more skeptical about running scripting
>languages inside the JVM.  Problems: the overhead of the JVM (primarily
>memory),

Is this really an issue with web apps?  Or for that matter even command-line scripting?  All scripting languages are usually interpreted as far as I know and would have the same type of overhead.  Java 5 and 6 are light years ahead of their predecessors when it comes to speed and memory usuage so this becomes even less of an issue.

>lagtime behind the "real" scripting language, minor deviations
>in functionality, etc.

True, for those that I copying functionality like JRuby but not for Rhino or Groovy.

>I see scripting in the JVM as a nice tool in the
>box for existing Java apps, but not as a replacement for the native
>scripting environments.

If Groovy or BeanShell or Rhino was preinstalled, would that make them "native"? :)

>If I'm writing a Rails app, it's going to be
>running in native Ruby served up via WebBrick or FastCGI.  I don't want
>the headache of dealing with "well I found instructions for doing it
>this way, but JRuby hasn't implemented that yet [or: it works
>differently]."  I have enough of that stuff running a Mac (both with PC
>and Linux software) :-)

Totally agree with you.  I would never develop a Rails app _hoping_ it would run on JRuby.  Even the JRuby guys would say that.  But what I'm saying is that if the scripting language is _mature/nearly mature_, why not leverage the architecture you already have installed.  If you're running Tomcat or Geronimo or even WebSphere, you can write a simple web app with Groovy in the same amount of time as PHP, and package and deploy it even faster (I love app servers and WARs).  Also, most corporate developers don't have the influence to persuade IT management to convert their architecture.

>If I'm evaluating what language to use at the beginning of a project,
>I'm still going to lean towards scripting languages outside of the JVM
>for lighterweight work.

See my previous response.

>The primary practical use of scripting within
>the JVM (as I see it) is in providing easy extension points for app
>functionality.  Example: using Python scripting to extend the
>functionality of WinCVS.

And this will always be the case with any scripting language, though this would only be the case for desktop style apps.  But even so, with the new features coming down the pipe, writing full-blown apps with scripting languages that run on the JVM is a reality.  People write desktop apps with Ruby, Perl and Python all the time - why wouldn't you do the same for scripts on the JVM? (see GroovySWT module)

Ok, time for a breather.  I hope I didn't come across as a Groovy fanatic, I'm just sick of writing Perl :)

JG

From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Wed May 31 14:48:59 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Wed May 31 13:17:00 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] FW: [grand-rapids-pm-list] Call for Speakers
Message-ID: <"H0000906017ef0e0.1149097739.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

In case someone was interested...

-----Original Message-----
From: mheusser@charter.net [mailto:mheusser@charter.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:48 AM
To: grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org; Al Tobey
Subject: [grand-rapids-pm-list] Call for Speakers


The Great Lakes Software Excellence Conference (GLSEC) will be October 25/26 at the Prince Conference Center at Calvin College.

More information is available at www.glsec.org.  (Speaker info form is on the website)

If you are about software development and want to make a difference in west michigan, why not put in a application to speaker?

-heusser

Call for Speakers
To submit a presentation for consideration, fill out the Speaker Information Form and email to program@glsec.org

Proposals are due by Tuesday, July 31, 2006, and should fit one of the following broad categories:

Software Development
Management, Analysis, Process
QA and Testing
Special Topics

Topics of particular interest include, but are not limited to, the following:

Gathering and writing requirements 
White-box/unit testing 
Black-box/functioning testing 
Programming tutorials?Perl, C#, Ruby, etc. 
Test driven development 
Open-source solutions to programming problems 
Web development with LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl) 
SQL?Intermediate, advanced, performance tuning, etc. 
Database design and data modeling 
Extreme programming 
Agile software development 
People issues in software development 
Software performance?from requirements to testing 
Exploratory testing 
Refactoring 
Design patterns 
Use cases 
Project scheduling 
Metrics 
Object-oriented development 
Reviews, walkthroughs and inspections 
Presenter Benefits
One complimentary conference registration will be given for each accepted track presentation. Additionally, a small stipend is available for tutorials. Track speakers also receive a 50 percent discount on tutorials.

Presentation Format
GLSEC 2006 will have four different presentation formats:

Full-day tutorial: A 6-hour presentation 
Half-day tutorial: A 3-hour presentation 
Track session: A 45-minute session, including 10 minutes for questions 
Lightning talks: A 5-minute presentation 
Tutorial slots can also be used for workshops which are more interactive, group-learning exercises.

Requirements
Tutorial instructors should provide a tutorial guide (it may correspond to the slides used in the presentation).

Notes on Submitting Presentations
To submit a presentation for consideration, fill out the Speaker Information Form and email to program@glsec.org or send paper to:

GLSE Conference
C/O Atomic Object
941 Wealthy SE
Grand Rapids, MI 49506 

The contact information you provide on this form will be used for future correspondence and should reflect a location where you can be reached throughout the conference planning period. Please notify us if your contact information changes. Applicants will by notified of acceptance in June of 2006.

Important Dates for Speakers
Submission Deadline: July 31, 2006 
Notification Date: Aug 15, 2006 
Speaker Materials Due Date: September 1, 2006 
Conference Dates: October 25-26, 2006


--
Matthew Heusser, www.xndev.com
mheusser@charter.net
_______________________________________________
grand-rapids-pm-list mailing list
grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/grand-rapids-pm-list


From Linda_VanZee at quixtar.com  Wed May 31 15:52:54 2006
From: Linda_VanZee at quixtar.com (Linda_VanZee@quixtar.com)
Date: Wed May 31 14:20:40 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] FW: [grand-rapids-pm-list] Call for Speakers
In-Reply-To: <"H0000906017ef0e0.1149097739.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>
Message-ID: <OFA47E52B2.54FC0F7A-ON8525717F.006797AF-8525717F.0067B8AB@mailrouter.net>

i must be in this distro list twice - or maybe once with
linda_vanzee@quixtar.com &
again with linda.vanzee@quixtar.com ?  either are ok, but could you change
the
distro list to include me only once?

thank you !



                                                                           
             jgerrits@ci.grand                                             
             -rapids.mi.us                                                 
             Sent by:                                                   To 
             jug-bounces@gr-ju         jug@gr-jug.org                      
             g.org                                                      cc 
                                                                           
                                                                   Subject 
             05/31/2006 01:48          [GR-Jug] FW: [grand-rapids-pm-list] 
             PM                        Call for Speakers                   
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
             Grand Rapids Java                                             
                Users Group                                                
               Mailing List                                                
             <jug@gr-jug.org>                                              
                                                                           
                                                                           




You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
Please see the bottom of this message for information on
unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------
In case someone was interested...

-----Original Message-----
From: mheusser@charter.net [mailto:mheusser@charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:48 AM
To: grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org; Al Tobey
Subject: [grand-rapids-pm-list] Call for Speakers


The Great Lakes Software Excellence Conference (GLSEC) will be October
25/26 at the Prince Conference Center at Calvin College.

More information is available at www.glsec.org.  (Speaker info form is on
the website)

If you are about software development and want to make a difference in west
michigan, why not put in a application to speaker?

-heusser

Call for Speakers
To submit a presentation for consideration, fill out the Speaker
Information Form and email to program@glsec.org

Proposals are due by Tuesday, July 31, 2006, and should fit one of the
following broad categories:

Software Development
Management, Analysis, Process
QA and Testing
Special Topics

Topics of particular interest include, but are not limited to, the
following:

Gathering and writing requirements
White-box/unit testing
Black-box/functioning testing
Programming tutorials?Perl, C#, Ruby, etc.
Test driven development
Open-source solutions to programming problems
Web development with LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl)
SQL?Intermediate, advanced, performance tuning, etc.
Database design and data modeling
Extreme programming
Agile software development
People issues in software development
Software performance?from requirements to testing
Exploratory testing
Refactoring
Design patterns
Use cases
Project scheduling
Metrics
Object-oriented development
Reviews, walkthroughs and inspections
Presenter Benefits
One complimentary conference registration will be given for each accepted
track presentation. Additionally, a small stipend is available for
tutorials. Track speakers also receive a 50 percent discount on tutorials.

Presentation Format
GLSEC 2006 will have four different presentation formats:

Full-day tutorial: A 6-hour presentation
Half-day tutorial: A 3-hour presentation
Track session: A 45-minute session, including 10 minutes for questions
Lightning talks: A 5-minute presentation
Tutorial slots can also be used for workshops which are more interactive,
group-learning exercises.

Requirements
Tutorial instructors should provide a tutorial guide (it may correspond to
the slides used in the presentation).

Notes on Submitting Presentations
To submit a presentation for consideration, fill out the Speaker
Information Form and email to program@glsec.org or send paper to:

GLSE Conference
C/O Atomic Object
941 Wealthy SE
Grand Rapids, MI 49506

The contact information you provide on this form will be used for future
correspondence and should reflect a location where you can be reached
throughout the conference planning period. Please notify us if your contact
information changes. Applicants will by notified of acceptance in June of
2006.

Important Dates for Speakers
Submission Deadline: July 31, 2006
Notification Date: Aug 15, 2006
Speaker Materials Due Date: September 1, 2006
Conference Dates: October 25-26, 2006


--
Matthew Heusser, www.xndev.com
mheusser@charter.net
_______________________________________________
grand-rapids-pm-list mailing list
grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/grand-rapids-pm-list


_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

From matt at eisgr.com  Wed May 31 20:59:55 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Wed May 31 19:49:35 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] FW: [grand-rapids-pm-list] Call for Speakers
In-Reply-To: <OFA47E52B2.54FC0F7A-ON8525717F.006797AF-8525717F.0067B8AB@mailrouter.net>
References: <OFA47E52B2.54FC0F7A-ON8525717F.006797AF-8525717F.0067B8AB@mailrouter.net>
Message-ID: <200605311959.56937.matt@eisgr.com>

Done.  Welcome back (we got your out of office messages) :)


On Wednesday 31 May 2006 14:52, Linda_VanZee@quixtar.com wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> i must be in this distro list twice - or maybe once with
> linda_vanzee@quixtar.com &
> again with linda.vanzee@quixtar.com ?  either are ok, but could you change
> the
> distro list to include me only once?
>
> thank you !
>
>
>
>
>              jgerrits@ci.grand
>              -rapids.mi.us
>              Sent by:                                                   To
>              jug-bounces@gr-ju         jug@gr-jug.org
>              g.org                                                      cc
>
>                                                                    Subject
>              05/31/2006 01:48          [GR-Jug] FW: [grand-rapids-pm-list]
>              PM                        Call for Speakers
>
>
>              Please respond to
>              Grand Rapids Java
>                 Users Group
>                Mailing List
>              <jug@gr-jug.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> In case someone was interested...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mheusser@charter.net [mailto:mheusser@charter.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:48 AM
> To: grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org; Al Tobey
> Subject: [grand-rapids-pm-list] Call for Speakers
>
>
> The Great Lakes Software Excellence Conference (GLSEC) will be October
> 25/26 at the Prince Conference Center at Calvin College.
>
> More information is available at www.glsec.org.  (Speaker info form is on
> the website)
>
> If you are about software development and want to make a difference in west
> michigan, why not put in a application to speaker?
>
> -heusser
>
> Call for Speakers
> To submit a presentation for consideration, fill out the Speaker
> Information Form and email to program@glsec.org
>
> Proposals are due by Tuesday, July 31, 2006, and should fit one of the
> following broad categories:
>
> Software Development
> Management, Analysis, Process
> QA and Testing
> Special Topics
>
> Topics of particular interest include, but are not limited to, the
> following:
>
> Gathering and writing requirements
> White-box/unit testing
> Black-box/functioning testing
> Programming tutorials?Perl, C#, Ruby, etc.
> Test driven development
> Open-source solutions to programming problems
> Web development with LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl)
> SQL?Intermediate, advanced, performance tuning, etc.
> Database design and data modeling
> Extreme programming
> Agile software development
> People issues in software development
> Software performance?from requirements to testing
> Exploratory testing
> Refactoring
> Design patterns
> Use cases
> Project scheduling
> Metrics
> Object-oriented development
> Reviews, walkthroughs and inspections
> Presenter Benefits
> One complimentary conference registration will be given for each accepted
> track presentation. Additionally, a small stipend is available for
> tutorials. Track speakers also receive a 50 percent discount on tutorials.
>
> Presentation Format
> GLSEC 2006 will have four different presentation formats:
>
> Full-day tutorial: A 6-hour presentation
> Half-day tutorial: A 3-hour presentation
> Track session: A 45-minute session, including 10 minutes for questions
> Lightning talks: A 5-minute presentation
> Tutorial slots can also be used for workshops which are more interactive,
> group-learning exercises.
>
> Requirements
> Tutorial instructors should provide a tutorial guide (it may correspond to
> the slides used in the presentation).
>
> Notes on Submitting Presentations
> To submit a presentation for consideration, fill out the Speaker
> Information Form and email to program@glsec.org or send paper to:
>
> GLSE Conference
> C/O Atomic Object
> 941 Wealthy SE
> Grand Rapids, MI 49506
>
> The contact information you provide on this form will be used for future
> correspondence and should reflect a location where you can be reached
> throughout the conference planning period. Please notify us if your contact
> information changes. Applicants will by notified of acceptance in June of
> 2006.
>
> Important Dates for Speakers
> Submission Deadline: July 31, 2006
> Notification Date: Aug 15, 2006
> Speaker Materials Due Date: September 1, 2006
> Conference Dates: October 25-26, 2006
>
>
> --
> Matthew Heusser, www.xndev.com
> mheusser@charter.net
> _______________________________________________
> grand-rapids-pm-list mailing list
> grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/grand-rapids-pm-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Sun Jun  4 10:54:31 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Sun Jun  4 09:22:14 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Java and Scripting
Message-ID: <f9688a930606040654y6d46fa27j64236f451065748a@mail.gmail.com>

Hey there,

How many of you out there have used, or currently using, scripting languages
as a tool for Java Development.  When I say scripting languages, I mean
those scripting languages that interact with the JVM.  Languages like
Groovy, Jython, Rhino.  How are you using those languages?  Are you
deploying them into production applications?  What are the main benefits
that you can witness by using those languages?  How have you integrated them
into your daily workflow?

I have not used any of these languages before, but I just read somewhere
that Rod Johnston said that web application frameworks will be dead within
the next 3 - 5 years.  I pride myself on Struts, as I am sure that many of
you do as well, but if there is some truth in this matter, then I want to be
on target with the next wave of web development tools.  I think that what
Rod says does carry some weight, and I don't want to be stuck in the legacy
applications because I don't understand the scripting ones.

Let me know your thoughts....

Thanks
Carlus
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From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Mon Jun  5 12:48:55 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Mon Jun  5 11:16:52 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Java and Scripting
Message-ID: <"H000090601838b11.1149522535.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

Spring 2.0 has built-in support for dynamic and scripting languages.  See this presentation by Ben Hale:

http://blog.springframework.com/benh/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/Atlanta%20DevCon%202006.pdf

Look specifically at slides 58 - 63.

JG

-----Original Message-----
From: Carlus Henry [mailto:carlushenry@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:55 AM
To: Grand Rapids Java User Group
Subject: [GR-Jug] Java and Scripting

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------


From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Jun  5 17:59:58 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Jun  5 12:27:40 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Java and Scripting
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930606040654y6d46fa27j64236f451065748a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930606040654y6d46fa27j64236f451065748a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4484630E.9080002@brondsema.net>

Carlus Henry wrote:
> 
> Hey there,
> 
> How many of you out there have used, or currently using, scripting
> languages as a tool for Java Development.  When I say scripting
> languages, I mean those scripting languages that interact with the JVM. 
> Languages like Groovy, Jython, Rhino.  How are you using those
> languages?  Are you deploying them into production applications?  What
> are the main benefits that you can witness by using those languages? 
> How have you integrated them into your daily workflow?

I'm not using any.  The closest I get is JavaServer Faces Expression
Language (now the Unified EL, usable by JSPs and other contexts outside
of JSF).  But the EL is just for referencing properties, not a real
scripting programming language.

> 
> I have not used any of these languages before, but I just read somewhere
> that Rod Johnston said that web application frameworks will be dead
> within the next 3 - 5 years.  It pride myself on Struts, as I am sure
> that many of you do as well, but if there is some truth in this matter,
> then I want to be on target with the next wave of web development
> tools.  I think that what Rod says does carry some weight, and I don't
> want to be stuck in the legacy applications because I don't understand
> the scripting ones. 
> 

I'd be interested in seeing the full context and explanation of Rod's
statement.  Does he mean current web application frameworks will be
dead?  Certainly not all (how can we write webapps without webapp
frameworks!).

I'd differentiate between legacy/future webapp frameworks and
compiled/scripting languages.  JSF has many compelling reasons to be the
next popular webapp framework (at least for Java folks), and it does not
use a scripting language.  And personally I see scripting languages not
as a good solution for webapps, but as a good solution for very small
RAD projects (which may include some webapps).  The reason: when your
project gets above a small one-man codebase you *need* compile-time
checks and IDE assistance.  Complete test coverage (if you're so lucky)
can replace compile-time checks, but AFAIK there is no way to get all
the wonderful IDE assistance with a dynamically-typed scripting language.


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From reminders at reply.yahoo.com  Thu Jun  8 16:26:21 2006
From: reminders at reply.yahoo.com (Yahoo! Reminder)
Date: Thu Jun  8 21:06:45 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd
	Thursday, 6/15/2006, 6:30 pm
Message-ID: <200606082201.k58M1U70007066@gr-jug.org>

 Reminder from the Calendar of grandrapidsjavausersgroup
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal

GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd Thursday
Thursday June 15, 2006
6:30 pm - 9:00 pm
(This event repeats  on the third Thursday of every month.)
(The next reminder for this event will be sent in 6 days, 12 hours, 3 minutes.)
Event Location: Calvin College North Hall 253
City, State, Zip: Grand Rapids, MI

Set up birthday reminders!
 http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal?v=9&evt_type=13

Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 14:02:05 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Jun  9 12:29:26 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Are we still meeting next week???
Message-ID: <f9688a930606091002y450b7b00ub1f316691b474af6@mail.gmail.com>

Are we still planning to have the meeting next week for the GRJUG?

Who is the presenter?

Has the presenter verified that they are going to make it?

Carlus
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From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 16:11:30 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri Jun  9 14:38:50 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Are we still meeting next week???
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930606091002y450b7b00ub1f316691b474af6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930606091002y450b7b00ub1f316691b474af6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550606091211k465a39ber7048fe96151b75e9@mail.gmail.com>

I can't make it next week.

On 6/9/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Are we still planning to have the meeting next week for the GRJUG?
>
> Who is the presenter?
>
> Has the presenter verified that they are going to make it?
>
> Carlus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>


-- 
Share and Enjoy
From jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us  Mon Jun 12 09:15:47 2006
From: jgerrits at ci.grand-rapids.mi.us (jgerrits@ci.grand-rapids.mi.us)
Date: Mon Jun 12 07:43:22 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Are we still meeting next week???
Message-ID: <"H0000906018ad794.1150114546.frozone1.grand-rapids.mi.us*"@MHS>

I was supposed to present but I will not be able to attend either.

Sorry, I have a new baby to prepare for.

JG

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Flanders [mailto:flanderb@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 3:12 PM
To: Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing List
Subject: Re: [GR-Jug] Are we still meeting next week???

You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
------------------------------------------
I can't make it next week.

On 6/9/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
> Are we still planning to have the meeting next week for the GRJUG?
>
> Who is the presenter?
>
> Has the presenter verified that they are going to make it?
>
> Carlus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>


-- 
Share and Enjoy
_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


From carlushenry at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 09:22:44 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Mon Jun 12 07:56:25 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [June GRJUG Meeting] Yay or Nay
Message-ID: <f9688a930606120522i781e5130jabc1aa551b58ff04@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like we lost our presenter for Thursday.  I would like to propose two
options:

1.)  We meet to discuss the improvement of the group
2.)  We cancel the meeting for the month of June

If there are any questions, please let me know.

Thanks
Carlus
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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Mon Jun 12 10:33:19 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Mon Jun 12 09:00:39 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [June GRJUG Meeting] Yay or Nay
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930606120522i781e5130jabc1aa551b58ff04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930606120522i781e5130jabc1aa551b58ff04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <448D6D1F.2070502@envoisolutions.com>

I can come, and will come if others are going as well. I could even 
present something if needed (on say webservices or what not).
- Dan

Carlus Henry wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sounds like we lost our presenter for Thursday.  I would like to 
> propose two options:
>
> 1.)  We meet to discuss the improvement of the group
> 2.)  We cancel the meeting for the month of June
>
> If there are any questions, please let me know.
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Jun 12 16:01:57 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Jun 12 10:29:29 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [June GRJUG Meeting] Yay or Nay
In-Reply-To: <448D6D1F.2070502@envoisolutions.com>
References: <f9688a930606120522i781e5130jabc1aa551b58ff04@mail.gmail.com>
	<448D6D1F.2070502@envoisolutions.com>
Message-ID: <448D81E5.8030600@brondsema.net>

I'll be there.

I can talk a bit about my ideas for some changes to the website, and
mailing list setup.  But those should take back seat to planning future
meetings, etc.

Dan Diephouse wrote:
> I can come, and will come if others are going as well. I could even
> present something if needed (on say webservices or what not).
> - Dan
> 
> Carlus Henry wrote:
>> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list. 
>> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>> ------------------------------------------
>>  
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Sounds like we lost our presenter for Thursday.  I would like to
>> propose two options:
>>
>> 1.)  We meet to discuss the improvement of the group
>> 2.)  We cancel the meeting for the month of June
>>
>> If there are any questions, please let me know.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Carlus
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jug mailing list
>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>   
> 
> 


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From radlickk at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 12 09:55:33 2006
From: radlickk at yahoo.com (Ken Radlick)
Date: Mon Jun 12 11:22:50 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [June GRJUG Meeting] Yay or Nay
In-Reply-To: <448D81E5.8030600@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <20060612155533.70184.qmail@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Not sure if I will be able to be at the meeting, a few
things are still up in the air, so I guess I'm a
maybe.

Ken.

--- Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:

> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on unsubscription/customizing your
> preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
> > I'll be there.
> 
> I can talk a bit about my ideas for some changes to
> the website, and
> mailing list setup.  But those should take back seat
> to planning future
> meetings, etc.
> 
> Dan Diephouse wrote:
> > I can come, and will come if others are going as
> well. I could even
> > present something if needed (on say webservices or
> what not).
> > - Dan
> > 
> > Carlus Henry wrote:
> >> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users
> Group mailing list. 
> >> Please see the bottom of this message for
> information on
> >> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> >> ------------------------------------------
> >>  
> >>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Sounds like we lost our presenter for Thursday. 
> I would like to
> >> propose two options:
> >>
> >> 1.)  We meet to discuss the improvement of the
> group
> >> 2.)  We cancel the meeting for the month of June
> >>
> >> If there are any questions, please let me know.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Carlus
> >>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Jug mailing list
> >> Jug@gr-jug.org
> >> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >>   
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dave Brondsema
> Software Developer
> Cornerstone University
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed Jun 14 22:43:34 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Jun 14 21:10:44 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Tomorrow's Meeting
Message-ID: <f9688a930606141843r44964e75td8aca3d491aac0f2@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like we don't have a presenter for tomorrow's meeting.  Since that is
the case, let's just plan on meeting to outline a plan of action in order to
improve the group.

If you are planning to come to this open discussion, please reply to this
email with a count.  I will start it off

+1

If no one plans to show, let's just consider not having the meeting at all.

Carlus
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From dave at brondsema.net  Wed Jun 14 23:01:20 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Wed Jun 14 21:28:47 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Tomorrow's Meeting
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930606141843r44964e75td8aca3d491aac0f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930606141843r44964e75td8aca3d491aac0f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4490BF70.1080402@brondsema.net>



Carlus Henry wrote:
>
> Looks like we don't have a presenter for tomorrow's meeting.  Since that
> is the case, let's just plan on meeting to outline a plan of action in
> order to improve the group.
>
> If you are planning to come to this open discussion, please reply to
> this email with a count.  I will start it off
>
> +1
>
> If no one plans to show, let's just consider not having the meeting at all.
>

You don't need to include the yahoogroups list anymore, we've decided a
few times that is dead.  Correct?

Dan Diephouse & I already said we'd come.  Including you, that makes 3,
which isn't too bad for a GR-JUG meeting :-)

+1

--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Wed Jun 14 23:10:01 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Wed Jun 14 21:37:12 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Tomorrow's Meeting
In-Reply-To: <4490BF70.1080402@brondsema.net>
References: <f9688a930606141843r44964e75td8aca3d491aac0f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4490BF70.1080402@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <4490C179.1060502@envoisolutions.com>

Are we at Apache? +1 - but can someone inform me of the official time 
and location? Cheers,
- Dan


Dave Brondsema wrote:
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.  
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Carlus Henry wrote:
>>
>> Looks like we don't have a presenter for tomorrow's meeting.  Since that
>> is the case, let's just plan on meeting to outline a plan of action in
>> order to improve the group.
>>
>> If you are planning to come to this open discussion, please reply to
>> this email with a count.  I will start it off
>>
>> +1
>>
>> If no one plans to show, let's just consider not having the meeting 
>> at all.
>>
>
> You don't need to include the yahoogroups list anymore, we've decided a
> few times that is dead.  Correct?
>
> Dan Diephouse & I already said we'd come.  Including you, that makes 3,
> which isn't too bad for a GR-JUG meeting :-)
>
> +1
>
> -- 
> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
>                <><
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed Jun 14 22:43:34 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Jun 14 21:40:23 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] Tomorrow's Meeting
Message-ID: <f9688a930606141843r44964e75td8aca3d491aac0f2@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like we don't have a presenter for tomorrow's meeting.  Since that is
the case, let's just plan on meeting to outline a plan of action in order to
improve the group.

If you are planning to come to this open discussion, please reply to this
email with a count.  I will start it off

+1

If no one plans to show, let's just consider not having the meeting at all.

Carlus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed Jun 14 23:12:33 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Jun 14 21:41:29 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Tomorrow's Meeting
In-Reply-To: <4490BF70.1080402@brondsema.net>
References: <f9688a930606141843r44964e75td8aca3d491aac0f2@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4490BF70.1080402@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <f9688a930606141912h5ae75d95ge3abdd44c35037e5@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah....

The official closing of the yahoo group is another topic that we should
discuss tomorrow.  It may be officially dead, but why is it still up?

....so confusing.

Carlus

On 6/14/06, Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:
>
> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Carlus Henry wrote:
> >
> > Looks like we don't have a presenter for tomorrow's meeting.  Since that
> > is the case, let's just plan on meeting to outline a plan of action in
> > order to improve the group.
> >
> > If you are planning to come to this open discussion, please reply to
> > this email with a count.  I will start it off
> >
> > +1
> >
> > If no one plans to show, let's just consider not having the meeting at
> all.
> >
>
> You don't need to include the yahoogroups list anymore, we've decided a
> few times that is dead.  Correct?
>
> Dan Diephouse & I already said we'd come.  Including you, that makes 3,
> which isn't too bad for a GR-JUG meeting :-)
>
> +1
>
> --
> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
>                 <><
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
>
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From dave at brondsema.net  Thu Jun 15 08:28:58 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Thu Jun 15 06:56:23 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Tomorrow's Meeting
In-Reply-To: <4490C179.1060502@envoisolutions.com>
References: <f9688a930606141843r44964e75td8aca3d491aac0f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4490BF70.1080402@brondsema.net> <4490C179.1060502@envoisolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4491447A.2070401@brondsema.net>

Dan Diephouse wrote:
> Are we at Apache? +1

It's a good voting style, isn't it? :-)

 > but can someone inform me of the official time
> and location? Cheers,

6:30 p.m. at Calvin College, North Hall room 253


> - Dan
>
>
> Dave Brondsema wrote:
>
>> You are a member of the Grand Rapids Java Users Group mailing list.
>> Please see the bottom of this message for information on
>> unsubscription/customizing your preferences.
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlus Henry wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Looks like we don't have a presenter for tomorrow's meeting.  Since that
>>> is the case, let's just plan on meeting to outline a plan of action in
>>> order to improve the group.
>>>
>>> If you are planning to come to this open discussion, please reply to
>>> this email with a count.  I will start it off
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> If no one plans to show, let's just consider not having the meeting
>>> at all.
>>>
>>
>> You don't need to include the yahoogroups list anymore, we've decided a
>> few times that is dead.  Correct?
>>
>> Dan Diephouse & I already said we'd come.  Including you, that makes 3,
>> which isn't too bad for a GR-JUG meeting :-)
>>
>> +1
>>
>> --
>> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
>> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
>> http://www.splike.com : programming
>>                <><
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jug mailing list
>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>
>
>
>


--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From reminders at reply.yahoo.com  Thu Jun 15 04:26:25 2006
From: reminders at reply.yahoo.com (Yahoo! Reminder)
Date: Thu Jun 15 06:59:06 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	[Grand Rapids Java Users Group] GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd
	Thursday, 6/15/2006, 6:30 pm
Message-ID: <200606150955.k5F9tA70002670@gr-jug.org>

 Reminder from the Calendar of grandrapidsjavausersgroup
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal

GR-JUG monthly meeting - 3rd Thursday
Thursday June 15, 2006
6:30 pm - 9:00 pm
(This event repeats  on the third Thursday of every month.)
Event Location: Calvin College North Hall 253
City, State, Zip: Grand Rapids, MI

Set up birthday reminders!
 http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grandrapidsjavausersgroup/cal?v=9&evt_type=13

Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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 http://privacy.yahoo.com/

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 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From dave at brondsema.net  Fri Jun 16 14:31:09 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Fri Jun 16 08:58:18 2006
Subject: minor mailing list changes
Message-ID: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>


I've removed some annoyances:
 - shorter name (GR-JUG instead of Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing
List)
 - subject prefix [GR-Jug]
 - header prepended to the body of all messages

I will be working on getting the archives indexed by google.  Until
recently, gr-jug.org had a robots.txt blocking all spiders from all
pages.  I've fixed that, but the list archives still aren't getting
spidered/indexed.

-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Fri Jun 16 11:08:10 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Fri Jun 16 09:35:22 2006
Subject: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <4492BB4A.2000502@envoisolutions.com>

Nice! Thanks Dave!
- Dan

Dave Brondsema wrote:
> I've removed some annoyances:
>  - shorter name (GR-JUG instead of Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing
> List)
>  - subject prefix [GR-Jug]
>  - header prepended to the body of all messages
>
> I will be working on getting the archives indexed by google.  Until
> recently, gr-jug.org had a robots.txt blocking all spiders from all
> pages.  I've fixed that, but the list archives still aren't getting
> spidered/indexed.
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From matt at eisgr.com  Fri Jun 16 11:29:05 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Fri Jun 16 10:54:44 2006
Subject: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com>

Just a note on subject prefixes:
Some people appreciate them so as to categorize mail and prioritize reading 
it, as well as being able to sort by subject, which brings all list mail 
together.
I have always had JUG mail come directly to my Inbox rather than filtering and 
filing it immediately.  Without the subject prefix, I'm more likely to filter 
it, which lessens the chance I'll get around to reading it.

Just my $0.02.

Thanks,
Matt


On Friday 16 June 2006 09:31, Dave Brondsema wrote:
> I've removed some annoyances:
>  - shorter name (GR-JUG instead of Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing
> List)
>  - subject prefix [GR-Jug]
>  - header prepended to the body of all messages
>
> I will be working on getting the archives indexed by google.  Until
> recently, gr-jug.org had a robots.txt blocking all spiders from all
> pages.  I've fixed that, but the list archives still aren't getting
> spidered/indexed.

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From dave at brondsema.net  Fri Jun 16 17:31:12 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Fri Jun 16 11:58:26 2006
Subject: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
	<200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com>
Message-ID: <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>

Thanks for the feedback, Matt.  Does anyone else like or dislike the
subject prefix?

Matthew Carpenter wrote:
> Just a note on subject prefixes:
> Some people appreciate them so as to categorize mail and prioritize reading 
> it, as well as being able to sort by subject, which brings all list mail 
> together.
> I have always had JUG mail come directly to my Inbox rather than filtering and 
> filing it immediately.  Without the subject prefix, I'm more likely to filter 
> it, which lessens the chance I'll get around to reading it.
> 
> Just my $0.02.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt
> 
> 
> On Friday 16 June 2006 09:31, Dave Brondsema wrote:
>> I've removed some annoyances:
>>  - shorter name (GR-JUG instead of Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing
>> List)
>>  - subject prefix [GR-Jug]
>>  - header prepended to the body of all messages
>>
>> I will be working on getting the archives indexed by google.  Until
>> recently, gr-jug.org had a robots.txt blocking all spiders from all
>> pages.  I've fixed that, but the list archives still aren't getting
>> spidered/indexed.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From adams at calvin.edu  Fri Jun 16 13:53:59 2006
From: adams at calvin.edu (Joel Adams)
Date: Fri Jun 16 12:21:00 2006
Subject: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
	<200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com> <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <4492E227.7010006@calvin.edu>

FWIW, I only filter spam, and I'd guess that my filters are probably a 
bit less likely to classify gr-jug messages as spam if the prefix is 
included.

$0.02,

-Joel.

Dave Brondsema wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback, Matt.  Does anyone else like or dislike the
> subject prefix?
> 
> Matthew Carpenter wrote:
> 
>>Just a note on subject prefixes:
>>Some people appreciate them so as to categorize mail and prioritize reading 
>>it, as well as being able to sort by subject, which brings all list mail 
>>together.
>>I have always had JUG mail come directly to my Inbox rather than filtering and 
>>filing it immediately.  Without the subject prefix, I'm more likely to filter 
>>it, which lessens the chance I'll get around to reading it.
>>
>>Just my $0.02.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Matt
>>
>>
>>On Friday 16 June 2006 09:31, Dave Brondsema wrote:
>>
>>>I've removed some annoyances:
>>> - shorter name (GR-JUG instead of Grand Rapids Java Users Group Mailing
>>>List)
>>> - subject prefix [GR-Jug]
>>> - header prepended to the body of all messages
>>>
>>>I will be working on getting the archives indexed by google.  Until
>>>recently, gr-jug.org had a robots.txt blocking all spiders from all
>>>pages.  I've fixed that, but the list archives still aren't getting
>>>spidered/indexed.
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Jug mailing list
>>Jug@gr-jug.org
>>Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joel C. Adams, Ph.D.             "Two excesses:
Department of Computer Science     to exclude reason,
Calvin College                     to admit nothing but reason."
Grand Rapids, MI 49546             - Blaise Pascal, Pens?es
Ph:  616-526-8562
FAX: 616-526-6501                 http://www.calvin.edu/~adams
From joe.chavez at chavez.ws  Fri Jun 16 12:46:03 2006
From: joe.chavez at chavez.ws (Joe Chavez)
Date: Fri Jun 16 14:13:35 2006
Subject: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
	<200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com> <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <6B32645E-5885-4A34-BBE8-A1D1CD6C6FD7@chavez.ws>

+1 on the "[GR-Jug]" prefix.

-Joe

On Jun 16, 2006, at 9:31 AM, Dave Brondsema wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback, Matt.  Does anyone else like or dislike the
> subject prefix?
>
> Matthew Carpenter wrote:
>> Just a note on subject prefixes:
>> Some people appreciate them so as to categorize mail and  
>> prioritize reading
>> it, as well as being able to sort by subject, which brings all  
>> list mail
>> together.
>> I have always had JUG mail come directly to my Inbox rather than  
>> filtering and
>> filing it immediately.  Without the subject prefix, I'm more  
>> likely to filter
>> it, which lessens the chance I'll get around to reading it.
>>
>> Just my $0.02.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On Friday 16 June 2006 09:31, Dave Brondsema wrote:
>>> I've removed some annoyances:
>>>  - shorter name (GR-JUG instead of Grand Rapids Java Users Group  
>>> Mailing
>>> List)
>>>  - subject prefix [GR-Jug]
>>>  - header prepended to the body of all messages
>>>
>>> I will be working on getting the archives indexed by google.  Until
>>> recently, gr-jug.org had a robots.txt blocking all spiders from all
>>> pages.  I've fixed that, but the list archives still aren't getting
>>> spidered/indexed.
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jug mailing list
>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
> -- 
> Dave Brondsema
> Software Developer
> Cornerstone University
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

Joe Chavez
joe.chavez@chavez.ws
----
iTunes Now Playing: http://www.chavez.ws/nowplaying.html

"From the brightest star, comes the blackest hole."

-U2


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From dave at brondsema.net  Fri Jun 16 18:08:35 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Fri Jun 16 16:35:56 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug]Re: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <6B32645E-5885-4A34-BBE8-A1D1CD6C6FD7@chavez.ws>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
	<200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com> <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>
	<6B32645E-5885-4A34-BBE8-A1D1CD6C6FD7@chavez.ws>
Message-ID: <44931DD3.8010208@brondsema.net>

I put it back since we've seen some positive support of that already,
and since I'll be gone for most of the weekend.  Feel free to continue
to chime in if you have strong feelings

Joe Chavez wrote:
> +1 on the "[GR-Jug]" prefix.
>
> -Joe
>
> On Jun 16, 2006, at 9:31 AM, Dave Brondsema wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the feedback, Matt.  Does anyone else like or dislike the
>> subject prefix?
>>
>> Matthew Carpenter wrote:
>>
>>> Just a note on subject prefixes:
>>> Some people appreciate them so as to categorize mail and  prioritize
>>> reading
>>> it, as well as being able to sort by subject, which brings all  list
>>> mail
>>> together.
>>> I have always had JUG mail come directly to my Inbox rather than
>>> filtering and
>>> filing it immediately.  Without the subject prefix, I'm more  likely
>>> to filter
>>> it, which lessens the chance I'll get around to reading it.
>>>
>>> Just my $0.02.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday 16 June 2006 09:31, Dave Brondsema wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've removed some annoyances:
>>>>  - shorter name (GR-JUG instead of Grand Rapids Java Users Group
>>>> Mailing
>>>> List)
>>>>  - subject prefix [GR-Jug]
>>>>  - header prepended to the body of all messages
>>>>
>>>> I will be working on getting the archives indexed by google.  Until
>>>> recently, gr-jug.org had a robots.txt blocking all spiders from all
>>>> pages.  I've fixed that, but the list archives still aren't getting
>>>> spidered/indexed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Jug mailing list
>>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>>> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Brondsema
>> Software Developer
>> Cornerstone University
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jug mailing list
>> Jug@gr-jug.org
>> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
> Joe Chavez
> joe.chavez@chavez.ws
> ----
> iTunes Now Playing: http://www.chavez.ws/nowplaying.html
>
> "From the brightest star, comes the blackest hole."
>
> -U2
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From dave at brondsema.net  Fri Jun 16 18:16:59 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Fri Jun 16 16:44:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] meeting date/time change
Message-ID: <44931FCB.7010600@brondsema.net>

One of the things we (Carlus Henry, Dan Diephouse, myself) discussed
last night was changing the meeting date & time.  (Carlus will be
posting a summary with other info later).  Based on an earlier thread
(see http://gr-jug.org/pipermail/jug/2006/date.html#210) it sounded like
more people could attend on Tuesdays at an "earlier" time.  This sounded
good to us.

3rd Tuesday of the month
    5:30 networking
    5:45 meeting starts

Does anyone have conflicts with that, or better ideas?  We're a pretty
small group currently, so we can try to accommodate everyone.

--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From eric.piehl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 16 21:35:03 2006
From: eric.piehl at gmail.com (Eric Piehl)
Date: Sat Jun 17 09:12:36 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] RE: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com>
Message-ID: <00b201c691a5$e07b0db0$6701a8c0@EricPiehlG2006>

I like the prefix.  My two Spam-filters:  no difference.  I don't sort my
Inbox on anything, I just go down it in chronological order.  But I am on
too many listservs, most things get about four seconds to catch my eye.  The
prefix helps clue me in to what it is for.  --Eric Piehl.

From carlushenry at gmail.com  Sat Jun 17 16:52:03 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Sat Jun 17 15:19:05 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Fwd: MODERATE -- phillip9@hotmail.com posted to
	grandrapidsjavausersgroup
In-Reply-To: <1150569023.283.69695.m4@yahoogroups.com>
References: <1150569023.283.69695.m4@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930606171252k54ad5178oa653cd9d835a4fef@mail.gmail.com>

Phil is having some problems with the gr-jug mailing list.

David, can you look into this?

Carlus

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Yahoo! Groups
Notification<grandrapidsjavausersgroup-accept-7UQOhKeDk7Q0FlrsQQFkU=
g@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 17 Jun 2006 18:30:23 -0000
Subject: MODERATE -- phillip9@hotmail.com posted to
grandrapidsjavausersgroup
To: grandrapidsjavausersgroup-owner@yahoogroups.com


Hello,

A message has been sent to the grandrapidsjavausersgroup group from

  phillip9@hotmail.com

The message summary:
--------------------
FROM: phillip9@hotmail.com
DATE: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:30:20 -0000
SUBJECT: mailing list problem

Hello,

I am trying to post to the mailing list (jug@gr-jug.org) and
the messages are returned undeliverable. This happened to me
a few weeks ago, is there a problem?

Another good reason for the yahoo group. {wink}

phil

--------------------

A complete copy of this message has been attached for your convenience.

This message requires your approval for one of the following reasons:
* Your group is set to moderate all messages from this user, OR
* Your group is set to moderate messages from all users

To approve or reject this message using the web, please visit:
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need to attach the original message, just reply and send.

To reject this message using email, forward this message to

grandrapidsjavausersgroup-reject-HsiQN2aZKkhpjH7JQmbdtSU@yahoogroups.com

NOTE: The pending message will expire after 14 days. If you do not
take action within that time, the pending message will be automatically
rejected.  Yahoo! Groups does this to maintain a high quality of
service for our users.

Thank you for choosing Yahoo! Groups.

Regards,

Yahoo! Groups Customer Care

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Phillip" <phillip9@hotmail.com>
To: grandrapidsjavausersgroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:30:20 -0000
Subject: mailing list problem
Hello,

I am trying to post to the mailing list (jug@gr-jug.org) and the
messages are returned undeliverable.   This happened to me a few weeks
ago, is there a problem?

Another good reason for the yahoo group.  {wink}


phil
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From kadams at gfs.com  Mon Jun 19 12:53:36 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Mon Jun 19 11:55:31 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] meeting date/time change
In-Reply-To: <44931FCB.7010600@brondsema.net>
References: <44931FCB.7010600@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <44969040.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

> 3rd Tuesday of the month
>    5:30 networking
>    5:45 meeting starts

+1 on that.  The closer to 5 we can get, the better for me since I could go straight from work (I normally leave between 4 and 5).  With home being Muskegon, going home isn't an option between work and a GR-JUG meeting.  Though the earlier time would make it a possibility to attend a meeting that really hooks me, I'd probably still be a non-attender for most meetings.

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162


From kadams at gfs.com  Mon Jun 19 12:58:15 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Mon Jun 19 11:55:51 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <6B32645E-5885-4A34-BBE8-A1D1CD6C6FD7@chavez.ws>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
	<200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com>  <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>
	<6B32645E-5885-4A34-BBE8-A1D1CD6C6FD7@chavez.ws>
Message-ID: <44969157.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

I'm not attached to the subject prefix as the mailing list gets filtered
into a separate folder based on sender (jug@gr-jug.org).  I can see
where the prefix would be a hindrance to getting a client (whether it be
a web-based archive browser or a local mail client) to properly sort
e-mails into threads.  My own client (Groupwise) botches threads
regardless, so I'm just guessing.  Can anyone else confirm/discredit
whether the prefix causes problems for grouping?  I'd be curious as to
why Dave classified the prefix as an annoyance...

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From dan at envoisolutions.com  Mon Jun 19 13:45:27 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Mon Jun 19 12:12:24 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: minor mailing list changes
In-Reply-To: <44969157.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
References: <4492B29D.3040008@brondsema.net>
	<200606161029.09586.matt@eisgr.com>  <4492DCD0.50002@brondsema.net>
	<6B32645E-5885-4A34-BBE8-A1D1CD6C6FD7@chavez.ws>
	<44969157.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
Message-ID: <4496D4A7.4010806@envoisolutions.com>

Hiya,
Threading works great for me in Thunderbird. Even in this thread which 
has both non prefixed and prefixed subjects.
- Dan

Kyle Adams wrote:
> I'm not attached to the subject prefix as the mailing list gets filtered
> into a separate folder based on sender (jug@gr-jug.org).  I can see
> where the prefix would be a hindrance to getting a client (whether it be
> a web-based archive browser or a local mail client) to properly sort
> e-mails into threads.  My own client (Groupwise) botches threads
> regardless, so I'm just guessing.  Can anyone else confirm/discredit
> whether the prefix causes problems for grouping?  I'd be curious as to
> why Dave classified the prefix as an annoyance...
>
> Kyle
>
> _____
>
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From phillip9 at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 17 19:30:20 2006
From: phillip9 at hotmail.com (Phillip)
Date: Tue Jun 20 17:27:14 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [Grand Rapids Java Users Group] mailing list problem
Message-ID: <e71hns+temu@eGroups.com>

Hello,

I am trying to post to the mailing list (jug@gr-jug.org) and the
messages are returned undeliverable.   This happened to me a few weeks
ago, is there a problem?

Another good reason for the yahoo group.  {wink}


phil











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From matt at eisgr.com  Wed Jun 21 07:53:24 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Wed Jun 21 06:21:08 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] JUG Undeliverable
Message-ID: <200606210653.27487.matt@eisgr.com>

Hi Phillip,
Could you copy the failed email (including all headers) into an email to me?  
I'm not sure what's happening or where.  
-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Security Consulting, Incident Handling & Forensics
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 23:36:25 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Jun 21 22:03:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] New and Improved
Message-ID: <f9688a930606211936m4d56ecahc3346273abb23d5c@mail.gmail.com>

Fellow Jug Members......

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology...Better than he was before.
Better . . . stronger . . . faster."

Although this quote was taken from the 1970's tv classic, Bionic Man, this
sums up the way that many of us feel about the GRJUG.  The GRJUG, can be
more than what is now.  We can become one of the most popular technology
user groups in West Michigan.  Grand Rapids has a strong Java developer
community, and together, we can provide a JUG that will meet the concerns
and needs of that community.

During the last meeting, we had an opportunity to sit down and discuss plans
for the future -- but we did not stop there.  We are now putting into action
those plans.  There are two major efforts currently underway:

Redesign Website
First impression is everything.  With this in mind, we are going to
completely revamp the website.  We are going to put a more professional look
and feel to the site and deliver stronger content to the group.  There is a
small team of developers who are actively working to "refactor" the site.
There will be more to share on this in future emails.

Mailing List
There has been much confusion about the Mailing Lists.  We are once and for
all going to remove the Yahoo Group Mailing list.  As a personal service, we
will be moving all existing members of the yahoo mailing list to our own
hosted mailman service.

Outside of the major efforts that are currently underway, we also started to
throw around ideas for the group as a whole.  Included is a brief list of
the topics that we discussed:



There is a lot that can be done to improve the GRJUG.  If you have some
ideas, please share them.  If you have some skills that you would like to
commit to this effort, please let us know.

When it comes down to it, this is OUR group.  We can do as much as we want
with it, or as little as we want.  If you would like to contribute
suggestions, knowledge, time to this improvement effort, please let us know.


Thanks
Carlus
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed Jun 21 23:51:19 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Jun 21 22:18:11 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: New and Improved
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930606211936m4d56ecahc3346273abb23d5c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930606211936m4d56ecahc3346273abb23d5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930606211951g1fe01bd2hc464d81e58e8284d@mail.gmail.com>

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From kadams at gfs.com  Thu Jun 29 08:45:53 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Thu Jun 29 07:12:43 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: New and Improved
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930606211951g1fe01bd2hc464d81e58e8284d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930606211936m4d56ecahc3346273abb23d5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9688a930606211951g1fe01bd2hc464d81e58e8284d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44A38532.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

A GRJUG-hosted/organized Bar Camp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp 

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From dan at envoisolutions.com  Thu Jun 29 14:26:40 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Thu Jun 29 07:53:16 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: New and Improved
In-Reply-To: <44A38532.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
References: <f9688a930606211936m4d56ecahc3346273abb23d5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9688a930606211951g1fe01bd2hc464d81e58e8284d@mail.gmail.com>
	<44A38532.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
Message-ID: <44A3C700.3000901@envoisolutions.com>

Are you saying you're organizing one? I thought about it last year and 
would definitely be interested in doing one! Do we have space where we 
could meet and do talks?

- Dan

Kyle Adams wrote:

>A GRJUG-hosted/organized Bar Camp.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp 
>
>Kyle
>
>_____
>
>Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
>_______________________________________________
>Jug mailing list
>Jug@gr-jug.org
>Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>  
>


-- 
Dan Diephouse
(616) 971-2053
Envoi Solutions LLC
http://netzooid.com

From jack at 94-west.com  Thu Jun 29 11:09:44 2006
From: jack at 94-west.com (jack rosenzweig)
Date: Thu Jun 29 09:36:29 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Feedback requested on new Java GUI design tool
Message-ID: <EA1171F4-5959-4298-89D0-950B929C86A5@94-west.com>

All, we are looking for feedback on our new Java GUI designer,  
BuoyBuilder.

BuoyBuilder is a tool for building GUI applications enabling you to  
get the most functionality out of the least amount of code.  
BuoyBuilder's philosophy is to simplify application development by  
reducing the amount of code needed to do the job. There is no fragile  
code generated to describe your GUI, an XML file holds it all. There  
is no longer any need for writing all those nasty action listeners  
that muddy your code base. There is also a great new event model that  
is much more powerful than that of Swing.

The Buoy toolkit introduces an event model that is much simpler than  
Swing's. Buoy events allow you to connect a Widget directly to an  
"action method" in your class, for an event emitted by the Widget.  
This typically eliminates the common use of anonymous inner  
"Listener" classes. Buoy events are a very important part of Buoy  
that makes BuoyBuilder possible.

So if you design Swing GUIs for work or play, please take a look at  
BuoyBuilder and let us know what you think. You can post on our  
forums www.buoybuilder.com/forums or send us email feedback@94- 
west.com. We are a local startup in the Ann Arbor area and have been  
in the Michigan software industry for the past 14 years or so.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jack Rosenzweig
94West, LLC
jack@94-west.com
www.buoybuilder.com
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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Thu Jun 29 16:00:21 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Thu Jun 29 14:26:55 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: BarCamp
Message-ID: <f9688a930606291200r7b4b08aai30442413f8334ab3@mail.gmail.com>

So let me get this straight...

BarCamp looks very interesting.  What are some ideas of what it would
include....

Carlus

On 6/29/06, Kyle Adams <kadams@gfs.com> wrote:
>
> A GRJUG-hosted/organized Bar Camp.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp
>
> Kyle
>
> _____
>
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
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From kadams at gfs.com  Fri Jun 30 10:50:04 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Fri Jun 30 09:16:53 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: BarCamp
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930606291200r7b4b08aai30442413f8334ab3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930606291200r7b4b08aai30442413f8334ab3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44A4F3CC.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

> BarCamp looks very interesting.  What are some ideas of what it would
include.... <

Ah, now see, that's violating the spirit of BarCamp.  The idea is that
the participants determine what it should include.  I was proposing the
GRJUG take on organizing one.  The nice thing is that organizing is
pretty limited to finding the space (and perhaps equipment to a lesser
extent) and providing a loose structure for everything to happen in
(e.g. we start on this day, end on this day).

As I understand it, a group interested in organizing a BarCamp would
need to track down space with:

1) Internet access for a large number of computers (preferably WiFi)
2) Space for meeting (preferably conference-type rooms, but a large
open room can be informally divided up)
3) A system for posting meetings & presentations (e.g. a large
whiteboard, those oversized post-it notes we've all seen presenters use,
etc. with time slots setup and ready for scheduling)

Nice to haves (depending on ease of acquisition):

4) LCD projectors/screens for presenters
5) A healthy supply of Red Bull/coffee
6) A separate sleeping area for crashing
7) Food arrangements

The nice-to-haves above can be provided by the organizers, or they can
look to the attendees to help fill in the gaps.

The general agenda (once again, as I understand it) is that the
attendees show up at the appointed time, a host might do a short intro
speech describing how the BarCamp works, and then the attendees are set
loose to fill up the session board with whatever they want to present
on.

I've never been to a BarCamp, so I can't speak from personal
experience.  There is a good deal of info available if you snoop around
online:

http://barcamp.org/BarCampSanFranciscoSchedule - agenda from San
Francisco's, which I suspect is more highly organized/fancier that what
a GR BarCamp would be

http://www.flickr.com/photos/laughingsquid/sets/72057594079522975/ -
photos from the BarCamp is Austin; like SanFran, this is a high-tech
city; I wouldn't expect a BarCamp Lotus to show up at any area
BarCamp...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/argyle/sets/72057594088579781/ - photos
from Disney's internal version, a PoohCamp
http://davidcrow.ca/article/1046/poohcamp-and-a-business-model - more
info on the above

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,68610,00.html - Wired article
on the phenomena

As you can see from the above, BarCamps adapt to their environment. 
Austin's was based in a bar, Disney's in a country-themed conference
center.  Others have been hosted in warehouses, factory floors,
colleges, etc.

Discuss...

Kyle



_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From carlushenry at gmail.com  Sat Jul  1 15:29:06 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Sat Jul  1 13:55:40 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] MySQL Upgrade on gr-jug.org
Message-ID: <f9688a930607011129n20192bc0p1e3d841ef319449e@mail.gmail.com>

We are in the process of upgrading the mysql database on the gr-jug server.
Please let me know if there are any databases that should be backed up prior
to this upgrade.  I will assume that there are none if I have not heard back
from you by 7/8.

Thanks
Carlus
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From adams at calvin.edu  Wed Jul  5 18:11:29 2006
From: adams at calvin.edu (Joel Adams)
Date: Wed Jul  5 16:37:55 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Re: BarCamp
In-Reply-To: <44A4F3CC.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
References: <f9688a930606291200r7b4b08aai30442413f8334ab3@mail.gmail.com>
	<44A4F3CC.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
Message-ID: <4AF91108-ABBE-4570-AC74-56419B89452B@calvin.edu>

Kyle,

If you are willing to organize this, and make it self-supporting, and  
hold it
at a time that doesn't conflict with our classes (i.e., this August,  
or sometime
next summer), Calvin's CS Dept could probably sponsor the facilities  
end of things.

There are lots of classrooms that sit unused much of the summer,
which we could reserve...

-Joel.


On Jun 30, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Kyle Adams wrote:

>> BarCamp looks very interesting.  What are some ideas of what it would
> include.... <
>
> Ah, now see, that's violating the spirit of BarCamp.  The idea is that
> the participants determine what it should include.  I was proposing  
> the
> GRJUG take on organizing one.  The nice thing is that organizing is
> pretty limited to finding the space (and perhaps equipment to a lesser
> extent) and providing a loose structure for everything to happen in
> (e.g. we start on this day, end on this day).
>
> As I understand it, a group interested in organizing a BarCamp would
> need to track down space with:
>
> 1) Internet access for a large number of computers (preferably WiFi)
> 2) Space for meeting (preferably conference-type rooms, but a large
> open room can be informally divided up)
> 3) A system for posting meetings & presentations (e.g. a large
> whiteboard, those oversized post-it notes we've all seen presenters  
> use,
> etc. with time slots setup and ready for scheduling)
>
> Nice to haves (depending on ease of acquisition):
>
> 4) LCD projectors/screens for presenters
> 5) A healthy supply of Red Bull/coffee
> 6) A separate sleeping area for crashing
> 7) Food arrangements
>
> The nice-to-haves above can be provided by the organizers, or they can
> look to the attendees to help fill in the gaps.
>
> The general agenda (once again, as I understand it) is that the
> attendees show up at the appointed time, a host might do a short intro
> speech describing how the BarCamp works, and then the attendees are  
> set
> loose to fill up the session board with whatever they want to present
> on.
>
> I've never been to a BarCamp, so I can't speak from personal
> experience.  There is a good deal of info available if you snoop  
> around
> online:
>
> http://barcamp.org/BarCampSanFranciscoSchedule - agenda from San
> Francisco's, which I suspect is more highly organized/fancier that  
> what
> a GR BarCamp would be
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/laughingsquid/sets/72057594079522975/ -
> photos from the BarCamp is Austin; like SanFran, this is a high-tech
> city; I wouldn't expect a BarCamp Lotus to show up at any area
> BarCamp...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/argyle/sets/72057594088579781/ - photos
> from Disney's internal version, a PoohCamp
> http://davidcrow.ca/article/1046/poohcamp-and-a-business-model - more
> info on the above
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,68610,00.html - Wired  
> article
> on the phenomena
>
> As you can see from the above, BarCamps adapt to their environment.
> Austin's was based in a bar, Disney's in a country-themed conference
> center.  Others have been hosted in warehouses, factory floors,
> colleges, etc.
>
> Discuss...
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

-Joel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prof. Joel Adams
CS Dept, Calvin College
http://www.calvin.edu/~adams




From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Jul 10 23:40:19 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Jul 10 22:06:36 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] website facelift
Message-ID: <44B30F93.2070906@brondsema.net>


I've given http://gr-jug.org/ a facelift.  Our goal is to use drupal to
manage content and events for the website, but until that happens we
wanted to make it look a little better.

I've added an "Other Local User Groups" section, but the rest of the
content is the same.



--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
                <><
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From kadams at gfs.com  Tue Jul 11 08:33:25 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Tue Jul 11 06:59:49 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] website facelift
In-Reply-To: <44B30F93.2070906@brondsema.net>
References: <44B30F93.2070906@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <44B35444.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

+1 on the facelift.  Nice job, Dave!

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 10:39:19 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue Jul 11 09:05:31 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] GR-JUG facelift
Message-ID: <f9688a930607110639s4af29eccsd32fa41f7e4212a5@mail.gmail.com>

Great job on the facelift Dave.  It was funny because the team that I put
together for the drupal version of the site was working on it last night as
well.  As a matter of fact, while I was showing my wife what we had
completed, you had completely changed the site.  I am excited to see what
else we will accomplish.

I noticed that we have links for some of the other local user groups in
Grand Rapids.  Has anyone contacted them to let them know that we are
helping to promote their group?  My hope is that they would help drive
traffic to our site as well.

I have contacts with all of the groups except for GR Linux.  Should we draft
some letter / email in order to notify them of our support, or should we be
less formal?  What are your thoughts?

Thanks
Carlus
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From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Jul 11 15:55:16 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Jul 11 10:21:34 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] The yahoo group is closed!
Message-ID: <44B3BBD4.9060308@brondsema.net>


The Yahoo group is finally closed!!

Its mailing list and other features have been disabled (archives still
available to members), and all members of the yahoo mailing list have
been moved to this mailing list (if they weren't already subscribed here).

-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Jul 11 16:13:38 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Jul 11 10:39:51 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
 Reminder: meeting next week "Getting Started with Web Services with
 XFire"
Message-ID: <44B3C022.7050000@brondsema.net>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, July 18
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Getting Started with Web Services with XFire"
Presented by Dan Diephouse

Web services have evolved into a complex mash of standards and confusing
acronyms. To build SOAP services one needs to understand the
fundamentals of XML, WSDL, XML Schema, SOAP, and more. Then one needs to
learn the toolkit they are going to use to interact with these
standards. It can sometimes be a daunting task even for professionals.
The open source Codehaus XFire project can help you get your web service
off the ground easily. This talk will lead you through building services
with XFire. It will also help you address design decisions you will have
to make in the process like how to secure your web service, how to
choose the right XML/object binding, and how to plan ahead for service
versioning.

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From kadams at gfs.com  Tue Jul 11 12:24:09 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Tue Jul 11 10:50:28 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] GR-JUG facelift
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930607110639s4af29eccsd32fa41f7e4212a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930607110639s4af29eccsd32fa41f7e4212a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44B38A58.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

> I have contacts with all of the groups except for GR Linux.  Should 
> we draft some letter / email in order to notify them of our support,

> or should we be less formal?  What are your thoughts?

I'm all for less formal.  And yes, I'm the guy who always wears sandals
to work in the summer.

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul 11 09:40:45 2006
From: jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net (Jerry Neal)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:06:55 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] GR-JUG facelift
In-Reply-To: <44B38A58.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
Message-ID: <20060711154045.60501.qmail@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As far as I know the GR-Linux group is defunct. I went to their website a few months ago and it wasn't there. I went to the LUG list later and it wasn't listed any longer.
 
 Jerry

Kyle Adams <kadams@gfs.com> wrote: > I have contacts with all of the groups except for GR Linux.  Should 
> we draft some letter / email in order to notify them of our support,

> or should we be less formal?  What are your thoughts?

I'm all for less formal.  And yes, I'm the guy who always wears sandals
to work in the summer.

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

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From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Jul 11 17:07:03 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:33:19 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] GR-JUG facelift
In-Reply-To: <20060711154045.60501.qmail@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060711154045.60501.qmail@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44B3CCA7.9080707@brondsema.net>

Jerry Neal wrote:
> As far as I know the GR-Linux group is defunct. I went to their website
> a few months ago and it wasn't there. I went to the LUG list later and
> it wasn't listed any longer.
> 

The mailing list is still quite active, although they may not currently
hold actual meetings.

> */Kyle Adams <kadams@gfs.com>/* wrote:
> 
>     > I have contacts with all of the groups except for GR Linux. Should
>     > we draft some letter / email in order to notify them of our support,
> 
>     > or should we be less formal? What are your thoughts?
> 
>     I'm all for less formal. And yes, I'm the guy who always wears sandals
>     to work in the summer.

I was thinking that we could send a short email to each group or group
leader, just to tell them that we're linking to them and to ask if
they'd also put links to all the local users groups on their site.  I
think it's a good easy way to help build awareness for all the UGs in
West MI.


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul 11 10:16:05 2006
From: jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net (Jerry Neal)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:42:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] GR-JUG facelift
In-Reply-To: <44B3CCA7.9080707@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <20060711161605.19373.qmail@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

That's good to know.
 
 Jerry

Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote: Jerry Neal wrote:
> As far as I know the GR-Linux group is defunct. I went to their website
> a few months ago and it wasn't there. I went to the LUG list later and
> it wasn't listed any longer.
> 

The mailing list is still quite active, although they may not currently
hold actual meetings.

> */Kyle Adams /* wrote:
> 
>     > I have contacts with all of the groups except for GR Linux. Should
>     > we draft some letter / email in order to notify them of our support,
> 
>     > or should we be less formal? What are your thoughts?
> 
>     I'm all for less formal. And yes, I'm the guy who always wears sandals
>     to work in the summer.

I was thinking that we could send a short email to each group or group
leader, just to tell them that we're linking to them and to ask if
they'd also put links to all the local users groups on their site.  I
think it's a good easy way to help build awareness for all the UGs in
West MI.


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

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From flanderb at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 13:50:32 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Tue Jul 11 12:16:48 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] GR-JUG facelift
In-Reply-To: <20060711161605.19373.qmail@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <44B3CCA7.9080707@brondsema.net>
	 <20060711161605.19373.qmail@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550607110950g59e1ee36x4d747c3b46a4206b@mail.gmail.com>

The Lug is quite active.  They are in talks about becoming more
active.  Like regular meetings, and so forth.  The last meeting was a
few weeks ago.

The Website hasn't been touched, except to add a link to
http://wiki.grlug.org/ which, until we have someone who wants/has time
to work on the home page, will be the main web presence.



On 7/11/06, Jerry Neal <jerrydneal@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> That's good to know.
>
>  Jerry
>
>
> Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:
>
>  Jerry Neal wrote:
> > As far as I know the GR-Linux group is defunct. I went to their website
> > a few months ago and it wasn't there. I went to the LUG list later and
> > it wasn't listed any longer.
> >
>
> The mailing list is still quite active, although they may not currently
> hold actual meetings.
>
> > */Kyle Adams /* wrote:
> >
> > > I have contacts with all of the groups except for GR Linux. Should
> > > we draft some letter / email in order to notify them of our support,
> >
> > > or should we be less formal? What are your thoughts?
> >
> > I'm all for less formal. And yes, I'm the guy who always wears sandals
> > to work in the summer.
>
> I was thinking that we could send a short email to each group or group
> leader, just to tell them that we're linking to them and to ask if
> they'd also put links to all the local users groups on their site. I
> think it's a good easy way to help build awareness for all the UGs in
> West MI.
>
>
> --
> Dave Brondsema
> Software Developer
> Cornerstone University
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>


-- 
Share and Enjoy
From tobasco at us.ibm.com  Wed Jul 12 17:03:39 2006
From: tobasco at us.ibm.com (John Tobasco)
Date: Wed Jul 12 15:29:51 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] John Tobasco/Grand Rapids/IBM is out of the office.
Message-ID: <OFE405374F.63C16115-ON852571A9.006E3297-852571A9.006E3298@us.ibm.com>


I will be out of the office starting  07/12/2006 and will not return until
07/24/2006.

I will respond to your message when I return.

From kadams at gfs.com  Sat Jul 15 00:10:09 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Fri Jul 14 22:36:21 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] BarCampGrandRapids
Message-ID: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>

BarCampGrandRapids is on:

http://barcamp.org/BarCampGrandRapids

WHO: Anyone and everyone in Grand Rapids, MI (and surrounding areas) who
loves design and/or technology
WHEN: A Friday and Saturday in August, probably August 18 & 19
WHERE:	North Hall, Calvin College, Grand Rapids, MI

For those not familiar with the BarCamp concept:

"BarCamp is an ad-hoc gathering born from the desire for people to share
and learn in an open environment. It is an intense event with
discussions, demos, and interaction from attendees.

"Anyone with something to contribute or with the desire to learn is
welcome and invited to join.

"When you come, be prepared to share with barcampers.
When you leave, be prepared to share it with the world."

Consequently I'm putting two proposals up for vote on the GR-JUG mailing
list:

1) GR-JUG should be the official host organization.

2) BarCampGrandRapids should take place on August 18 & 19, a Friday and
Saturday.

Dave: did I forget anything?

Kyle

PS - Oh yeah, here's something I forgot.  We're looking for one more
point person to take on marketing (see the task list on the
BarCampGrandRapids wiki).  Even better we'd like to get one other person
willing to take point for Last Minute Emergencies.  Any takers?

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Jul 17 15:29:36 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Jul 17 09:56:08 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] 
	Meeting tomorrow night: "Getting Started with Web Services with
	XFire"
Message-ID: <1d2ffe970607170729s545d0588ka7ae1b4c1852d538@mail.gmail.com>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, July 18
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Getting Started with Web Services with XFire"
Presented by Dan Diephouse

Web services have evolved into a complex mash of standards and confusing
acronyms. To build SOAP services one needs to understand the
fundamentals of XML, WSDL, XML Schema, SOAP, and more. Then one needs to
learn the toolkit they are going to use to interact with these
standards. It can sometimes be a daunting task even for professionals.
The open source Codehaus XFire project can help you get your web service
off the ground easily. This talk will lead you through building services
with XFire. It will also help you address design decisions you will have
to make in the process like how to secure your web service, how to
choose the right XML/object binding, and how to plan ahead for service
versioning.

See you there!
From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Jul 17 18:37:36 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Jul 17 13:03:36 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] BarCampGrandRapids
In-Reply-To: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>
References: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>
Message-ID: <44BBCAE0.7090101@brondsema.net>

As the other co-organizer, I'll give my obvious votes:

+1

+1


Kyle Adams wrote:
> BarCampGrandRapids is on:
> 
> http://barcamp.org/BarCampGrandRapids
> 
> WHO: Anyone and everyone in Grand Rapids, MI (and surrounding areas) who
> loves design and/or technology
> WHEN: A Friday and Saturday in August, probably August 18 & 19
> WHERE:	North Hall, Calvin College, Grand Rapids, MI
> 
> For those not familiar with the BarCamp concept:
> 
> "BarCamp is an ad-hoc gathering born from the desire for people to share
> and learn in an open environment. It is an intense event with
> discussions, demos, and interaction from attendees.
> 
> "Anyone with something to contribute or with the desire to learn is
> welcome and invited to join.
> 
> "When you come, be prepared to share with barcampers.
> When you leave, be prepared to share it with the world."
> 
> Consequently I'm putting two proposals up for vote on the GR-JUG mailing
> list:
> 
> 1) GR-JUG should be the official host organization.
> 
> 2) BarCampGrandRapids should take place on August 18 & 19, a Friday and
> Saturday.
> 
> Dave: did I forget anything?
> 
> Kyle
> 
> PS - Oh yeah, here's something I forgot.  We're looking for one more
> point person to take on marketing (see the task list on the
> BarCampGrandRapids wiki).  Even better we'd like to get one other person
> willing to take point for Last Minute Emergencies.  Any takers?
> 
> _____
> 
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From kadams at gfs.com  Mon Jul 17 15:27:08 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Mon Jul 17 13:53:09 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] BarCampGrandRapids
In-Reply-To: <44BBCAE0.7090101@brondsema.net>
References: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>
 <44BBCAE0.7090101@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <44BB9E3B.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

Just an FYI: because we need to move quickly, I'm going to consider
voting closed on issue #2 (dates) _tomorrow morning_.  If there are no
nay votes at that point I'll reserve the venue on those dates (i.e. the
point of no return).

Vote early, vote often.

Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From dan at envoisolutions.com  Mon Jul 17 15:37:18 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Mon Jul 17 14:02:52 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] BarCampGrandRapids
In-Reply-To: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>
References: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>
Message-ID: <44BBD8DE.3010905@envoisolutions.com>

Looks great! I'll definitely come and the dates look good to me. We 
should let the other GR user groups know about this as well.

- Dan

Kyle Adams wrote:
> BarCampGrandRapids is on:
>
> http://barcamp.org/BarCampGrandRapids
>
> WHO: Anyone and everyone in Grand Rapids, MI (and surrounding areas) who
> loves design and/or technology
> WHEN: A Friday and Saturday in August, probably August 18 & 19
> WHERE:	North Hall, Calvin College, Grand Rapids, MI
>
> For those not familiar with the BarCamp concept:
>
> "BarCamp is an ad-hoc gathering born from the desire for people to share
> and learn in an open environment. It is an intense event with
> discussions, demos, and interaction from attendees.
>
> "Anyone with something to contribute or with the desire to learn is
> welcome and invited to join.
>
> "When you come, be prepared to share with barcampers.
> When you leave, be prepared to share it with the world."
>
> Consequently I'm putting two proposals up for vote on the GR-JUG mailing
> list:
>
> 1) GR-JUG should be the official host organization.
>
> 2) BarCampGrandRapids should take place on August 18 & 19, a Friday and
> Saturday.
>
> Dave: did I forget anything?
>
> Kyle
>
> PS - Oh yeah, here's something I forgot.  We're looking for one more
> point person to take on marketing (see the task list on the
> BarCampGrandRapids wiki).  Even better we'd like to get one other person
> willing to take point for Last Minute Emergencies.  Any takers?
>
> _____
>
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Jul 18 13:26:40 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Jul 18 07:52:41 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [job] Fwd: Looking for a GR Java Developer
Message-ID: <44BCD380.8030004@brondsema.net>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Looking for a GR Java Developer
Date: 	Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:00:51 -0400
From: 	Scott A. King <kings@optimalinternet.com>
To: 	<dave@brondsema.net>



Hello

I stumbled on your website thanks to Google as I was searching for
potential GR Java Developers to hire.  I work for a local (Wyoming)
company called Optimal Solutions, Inc.  The lion's share of our business
is in the education space (K-12 and some higher ed).  We have some
exciting projects on the table now that relate to our own software
offerings.  For instance, we're building an IPTV system for the new
Metro Health Hospital on M6.

I don't gather from your website that you are looking for employment,
but I do see you work at a Cornerstone University.  If you are not
interested yourself, do you know of any good Java developers who are
looking for a job with some exciting technologies such as IPTV
(www.evideon.com <http://www.evideon.com>)?  As far as range of
experience is concerned, we have some different needs that need to be
met, so recent grads on up are worth exploring a potential fit.

We strive to have an Agile environment and can discuss further our
development technologies and approach with an interested party.  If you
have any leads, or have any interest yourself, please feel free to give
me an email or a phone call.

Thank you for your time, Dave.

Scott A. King
Director of Converged Technology
eVideon - Optimal Solutions Inc
616.281.6040 w
616.281.6017 f
616.318.5083 c
http://www.optimalinternet.com <http://www.optimalinternet.com/>
http://www.evideon.com <http://www.evideon.com/>
kings@optimalinternet.com <mailto:kings@optimalinternet.com>


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From kadams at gfs.com  Thu Jul 20 17:13:15 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Thu Jul 20 15:39:15 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] BarCampGrandRapids
In-Reply-To: <44BB9E3B.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
References: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>
 <44BBCAE0.7090101@brondsema.net> <44BB9E3B.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
Message-ID: <44BFAB99.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

It's official!

BarCampGrandRapids has reserved a number of rooms at Calvin on August
18-19, so this event is going to happen (in one form or another :-). 
Since there were no votes against, I'm officially listing GR-JUG as the
host of the event.  For that matter, there were no votes except from
Dave.  Did everyone go on vacation?

Well regardless...

We're now in the process of advertising the event to user groups and
mailing lists around the southwest Michigan area (even as far as Ann
Arbor).  If anyone is interested, Dave was kind enough to setup two
mailing lists for the event:

BarCamp Campers: http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/barcamp 
BarCamp Organizers:
http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/barcamp-organizers 

Feel free to subscribe to either, even if you're not a organizer or a
camper.  If you can pass the word along on your blog, at your workplace
water cooler, and to friends and family, we'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Kyle

_____

Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
From dave at brondsema.net  Thu Jul 20 21:33:56 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Thu Jul 20 16:00:01 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] BarCampGrandRapids
In-Reply-To: <44BFAB99.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
References: <44B8245102000052000073E1@mail2.gfs.com>
	<44BBCAE0.7090101@brondsema.net> <44BB9E3B.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
	<44BFAB99.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
Message-ID: <44BFE8B4.6080504@brondsema.net>

Details and registration at http://barcamp.org/BarCampGrandRapids

Kyle Adams wrote:
> It's official!
> 
> BarCampGrandRapids has reserved a number of rooms at Calvin on August
> 18-19, so this event is going to happen (in one form or another :-). 
> Since there were no votes against, I'm officially listing GR-JUG as the
> host of the event.  For that matter, there were no votes except from
> Dave.  Did everyone go on vacation?
> 
> Well regardless...
> 
> We're now in the process of advertising the event to user groups and
> mailing lists around the southwest Michigan area (even as far as Ann
> Arbor).  If anyone is interested, Dave was kind enough to setup two
> mailing lists for the event:
> 
> BarCamp Campers: http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/barcamp 
> BarCamp Organizers:
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/barcamp-organizers 
> 
> Feel free to subscribe to either, even if you're not a organizer or a
> camper.  If you can pass the word along on your blog, at your workplace
> water cooler, and to friends and family, we'd greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kyle
> 
> _____
> 
> Kyle Adams | Java Developer  |  Gordon Food Service  |  616-717-6162
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> 


-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Jul 21 09:37:45 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Jul 21 08:03:33 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Perl and GRJug Presentation
Message-ID: <f9688a930607210537u665f6e43j7cad5b9b20ce5a6c@mail.gmail.com>

Al Tobey from the Perl User Group, has suggested a presentation, exercising
integration between Java and Perl through the use of web services.  What are
your thoughts about this kind of presentation?

Is this something that the group would be interested in seeing?
Would there be anyone willing to volunteer to represent the Jug in this
presentation?

Looking forward to some great feedback.

Thanks
Carlus
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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Fri Jul 21 18:16:56 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Fri Jul 21 16:42:49 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Perl and GRJug Presentation
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930607210537u665f6e43j7cad5b9b20ce5a6c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930607210537u665f6e43j7cad5b9b20ce5a6c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44C14448.8090003@envoisolutions.com>

What about something like "the top 5 things java programmers should know 
about perl and the top 5 things perl programmers should know about java"

- Dan

Carlus Henry wrote:
> Al Tobey from the Perl User Group, has suggested a presentation, 
> exercising integration between Java and Perl through the use of web 
> services.  What are your thoughts about this kind of presentation?
>
> Is this something that the group would be interested in seeing? 
> Would there be anyone willing to volunteer to represent the Jug in 
> this presentation?
>
> Looking forward to some great feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog

From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Aug  8 21:38:07 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Aug  8 16:03:27 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meeting next week: Spring Framework
Message-ID: <44D8F62F.6030907@brondsema.net>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, Aug 15
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Spring Framework: Dependency Injection and Lots of Helper Libraries"
Presented by Dave Brondsema

The Spring Framework is a lightweight "dependency injection" (aka
Inversion of Control) container. It also contains many helper libraries
to make it easier for developers to use all sorts of Java technologies.
I'll show why these are useful, and how to use them in webapps and J2SE
apps.


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From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Aug 14 19:17:28 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Aug 14 13:42:32 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meeting tomorrow night: "Spring Framework"
Message-ID: <44E0BE38.5080604@brondsema.net>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, Aug 15
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Spring Framework: Dependency Injection and Lots of Helper Libraries"
Presented by Dave Brondsema

The Spring Framework is a lightweight "dependency injection" (aka
Inversion of Control) container. It also contains many helper libraries
to make it easier for developers to use all sorts of Java technologies.
I'll show why these are useful, and how to use them in webapps and J2SE
apps.

-- 
Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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From tobasco at us.ibm.com  Tue Aug 15 17:02:03 2006
From: tobasco at us.ibm.com (John Tobasco)
Date: Tue Aug 15 15:27:04 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] John Tobasco/Grand Rapids/IBM is out of the office.
Message-ID: <OF22DEA552.1CC9AB2E-ON852571CB.006E0D17-852571CB.006E0D18@us.ibm.com>


I will be out of the office starting  08/11/2006 and will not return until
08/21/2006.

I will respond to your message when I return.

From dave at brondsema.net  Sat Sep  2 20:15:07 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Sat Sep  2 18:39:43 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] web interface to JDBC?
Message-ID: <44FA107B.5090803@brondsema.net>


Anybody know of a web interface to JDBC?  Something like phpMyAdmin or
phpPgAdmin.  Right now I'm just looking for something that can browse my
data, updating isn't really necessary.

-- 
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
               <><

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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 14:45:41 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Sep  6 13:16:57 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Service Mix Presentation
Message-ID: <f9688a930609061045g688035d1sa9ed4cd8f2605af7@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everyone,

A while ago, there was a gentleman who was interested in doing a
presentation on ServiceMix.  (Okay truth be told, I volunteered him)  I
wanted to know if that person was still interested in doing it.  I think
that the gentleman's name was Steve, but I could be wrong.....

Steve, if you are out there.....I would really love to hear more about your
experiences with ServiceMix.

Later,
Carlus
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From dave at brondsema.net  Wed Sep 13 03:41:13 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Sep 12 22:05:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meeting next week: Quartz
Message-ID: <45076FC9.8020904@brondsema.net>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, Sep 19
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Quartz"
Presented by Carlus Henry

Does your knowledge portfolio only include cron and Windows Scheduler as
options to schedule jobs in your applications? Have you ever wondered if
there was a better way to perform job scheduling internal to the
application? Come and invest in your knowledge portfolio as I teach you
the basics of how to use Quartz. Quartz is an open source project from
www.opensymphony.com that allows job scheduling within the JSE and JEE
environment.

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From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Sep 18 19:26:18 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Sep 18 13:50:09 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meeting tomorrow night: Quartz
Message-ID: <450EE4CA.3010801@brondsema.net>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, Sep 19
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Quartz"
Presented by Carlus Henry

Does your knowledge portfolio only include cron and Windows Scheduler as
options to schedule jobs in your applications? Have you ever wondered if
there was a better way to perform job scheduling internal to the
application? Come and invest in your knowledge portfolio as I teach you
the basics of how to use Quartz. Quartz is an open source project from
www.opensymphony.com that allows job scheduling within the JSE and JEE
environment.

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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Sat Sep 23 10:26:40 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Sat Sep 23 08:50:12 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Messaging Series
Message-ID: <f9688a930609230626r56b04be1n6d017a6472756e52@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning everyone,

I wanted to know if there was any interest out there regarding a series of
presentations based on integration solutions.  I have been brainstorming and
researching this topic, and I find it extremely interesting as well as being
practiced across many companies in the Grand Rapids area.  I was thinking
something along the lines of:

1.)  JMS
2.)  Web Services
3.)  Socket Communications
4.)  RMI

We could end the series by tying it all together with an integrated solution
using Service Mix or something along those lines.

What are your thoughts?  Is this something that you would be interested in
hearing?  Do you have any thoughts on how to improve this?

Thanks
Carlus
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From globalbility at gmail.com  Sat Sep 23 22:57:40 2006
From: globalbility at gmail.com (Larry)
Date: Sat Sep 23 21:21:07 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Messaging Series
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930609230626r56b04be1n6d017a6472756e52@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930609230626r56b04be1n6d017a6472756e52@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59db5dd0609231857m45d95d95y9af40b95a8d7ef68@mail.gmail.com>

I would be interested in presentations on itegration solutions.  I also
would be interested in thoughts about extensive search queries.
Example...the best methods to handle multiple (OR, AND, IF, and WHERE).
What the latest practice being used beside the basics.  I know this request
seems basic, but I believe there is always room for improvement.   Just
looking for some ideas.

Thanks again.
-Larry M


On 9/23/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good morning everyone,
>
> I wanted to know if there was any interest out there regarding a series of
> presentations based on integration solutions.  I have been brainstorming and
> researching this topic, and I find it extremely interesting as well as being
> practiced across many companies in the Grand Rapids area.  I was thinking
> something along the lines of:
>
> 1.)  JMS
> 2.)  Web Services
> 3.)  Socket Communications
> 4.)  RMI
>
> We could end the series by tying it all together with an integrated
> solution using Service Mix or something along those lines.
>
> What are your thoughts?  Is this something that you would be interested in
> hearing?  Do you have any thoughts on how to improve this?
>
> Thanks
> Carlus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>


-- 
-Larry
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From james_bradt at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 24 10:00:44 2006
From: james_bradt at yahoo.com (James Bradt)
Date: Sun Sep 24 08:24:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Service Mix Presentation]
Message-ID: <4516817C.6090606@yahoo.com>

Carlus,

I believe that I was the 'Steve' that you are looking for.

I would be willing to do a presentation on ServiceMix, but it has to
wait for a while.

I am deep in the project that I am using ServiceMix in, and I don't have
the free cycles right now to generate anything.

Thanks,
James


Carlus Henry wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> A while ago, there was a gentleman who was interested in doing a 
> presentation on ServiceMix.  (Okay truth be told, I volunteered him)  
> I wanted to know if that person was still interested in doing it.  I 
> think that the gentleman's name was Steve, but I could be wrong.....
>
> Steve, if you are out there.....I would really love to hear more about 
> your experiences with ServiceMix.
>
> Later,
> Carlus
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   





From dan at envoisolutions.com  Mon Sep 25 12:22:42 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Mon Sep 25 10:46:47 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Messaging Series
In-Reply-To: <59db5dd0609231857m45d95d95y9af40b95a8d7ef68@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930609230626r56b04be1n6d017a6472756e52@mail.gmail.com>
	<59db5dd0609231857m45d95d95y9af40b95a8d7ef68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4517F442.1060505@envoisolutions.com>

Along those same lines, a presentation on Lucene might be good.

Carlus: I like the idea of talks on integration solutions. A talk on JMS
would be especially good I think. I personally don't use Socket/RMI
stuff too often, but maybe others do?

Cheers,
- Dan

Larry wrote:
> I would be interested in presentations on itegration solutions.  I 
> also would be interested in thoughts about extensive search queries.  
> Example...the best methods to handle multiple (OR, AND, IF, and 
> WHERE).  What the latest practice being used beside the basics.  I 
> know this request seems basic, but I believe there is always room for 
> improvement.   Just looking for some ideas.
>  
> Thanks again.
> -Larry M
>
>  
> On 9/23/06, *Carlus Henry* <carlushenry@gmail.com 
> <mailto:carlushenry@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Good morning everyone,
>
>     I wanted to know if there was any interest out there regarding a
>     series of presentations based on integration solutions.  I have
>     been brainstorming and researching this topic, and I find it
>     extremely interesting as well as being practiced across many
>     companies in the Grand Rapids area.  I was thinking something
>     along the lines of:
>
>     1.)  JMS
>     2.)  Web Services
>     3.)  Socket Communications
>     4.)  RMI
>
>     We could end the series by tying it all together with an
>     integrated solution using Service Mix or something along those lines.
>
>     What are your thoughts?  Is this something that you would be
>     interested in hearing?  Do you have any thoughts on how to improve
>     this?
>
>     Thanks
>     Carlus
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Jug mailing list
>     Jug@gr-jug.org <mailto:Jug@gr-jug.org>
>     Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> -Larry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>   


-- 
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
http://envoisolutions.com
http://netzooid.com/blog


From james_bradt at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 26 10:30:07 2006
From: james_bradt at yahoo.com (James Bradt)
Date: Tue Sep 26 08:53:34 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Messaging Series
In-Reply-To: <4517F442.1060505@envoisolutions.com>
References: <f9688a930609230626r56b04be1n6d017a6472756e52@mail.gmail.com>
	<59db5dd0609231857m45d95d95y9af40b95a8d7ef68@mail.gmail.com>
	<4517F442.1060505@envoisolutions.com>
Message-ID: <45192B5F.1010708@yahoo.com>

I would also 'second' a session on JMS (especially the 'extended 
features' of activeMq :)

BTW, was there a powerpoint or the like from the quartz presentation.  I 
was unable to attend, but I would appreciate it if it could be made 
available for review.

Thanks, James


From carlushenry at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 15:17:54 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Tue Sep 26 13:41:16 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Messaging Series
In-Reply-To: <45192B5F.1010708@yahoo.com>
References: <f9688a930609230626r56b04be1n6d017a6472756e52@mail.gmail.com>
	 <59db5dd0609231857m45d95d95y9af40b95a8d7ef68@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4517F442.1060505@envoisolutions.com> <45192B5F.1010708@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f9688a930609261117j5c3253b1ha45261aa4884c4e9@mail.gmail.com>

James....

Funny thing about that powerpoint presentation......

I don't have one.  I do have notes as well as a test suite Eclipse project
that I would be willing to share and post somewhere.  Where would be the
best place to post this?

I am at work right now, but I will be able to post it at a later time.

Thanks
Carlus

On 9/26/06, James Bradt <james_bradt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I would also 'second' a session on JMS (especially the 'extended
> features' of activeMq :)
>
> BTW, was there a powerpoint or the like from the quartz presentation.  I
> was unable to attend, but I would appreciate it if it could be made
> available for review.
>
> Thanks, James
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
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From matt at eisgr.com  Wed Sep 27 17:17:55 2006
From: matt at eisgr.com (Matthew Carpenter)
Date: Thu Sep 28 06:23:56 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] test
Message-ID: <200609271617.57310.matt@eisgr.com>

This is a test.  The DNS server has been moved, and this is to see if it 
worked for gr-jug.org

Thanks,
MAtt

-- 
Matthew Carpenter 
matt@eisgr.com                          http://www.eisgr.com/

Enterprise Information Systems
* Network Server Appliances
* Network Consulting, Integration & Support
* Web Integration and E-Business
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From dave at brondsema.net  Thu Sep 28 08:45:44 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Thu Sep 28 07:09:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Messaging Series
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930609261117j5c3253b1ha45261aa4884c4e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930609230626r56b04be1n6d017a6472756e52@mail.gmail.com>
	<59db5dd0609231857m45d95d95y9af40b95a8d7ef68@mail.gmail.com>
	<4517F442.1060505@envoisolutions.com> <45192B5F.1010708@yahoo.com>
	<f9688a930609261117j5c3253b1ha45261aa4884c4e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <451BB5E8.2060703@brondsema.net>

A new directory in http://gr-jug.org/Uploads/MeetingContent/  If you
want to put a link to it in the index page, go ahead.  Or I can.

Carlus Henry wrote:
> James....
> 
> Funny thing about that powerpoint presentation......
> 
> I don't have one.  I do have notes as well as a test suite Eclipse
> project that I would be willing to share and post somewhere.  Where
> would be the best place to post this?
> 
> I am at work right now, but I will be able to post it at a later time.
> 
> Thanks
> Carlus
> 
> On 9/26/06, *James Bradt* < james_bradt@yahoo.com
> <mailto:james_bradt@yahoo.com>> wrote:
> 
>     I would also 'second' a session on JMS (especially the 'extended
>     features' of activeMq :)
> 
>     BTW, was there a powerpoint or the like from the quartz presentation.  I
>     was unable to attend, but I would appreciate it if it could be made
>     available for review.
> 
>     Thanks, James
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Jug mailing list
>     Jug@gr-jug.org <mailto:Jug@gr-jug.org>
>     Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>     <http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug>
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


-- 
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
               <><

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From carlushenry at gmail.com  Fri Sep 29 19:45:29 2006
From: carlushenry at gmail.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Fri Sep 29 18:10:26 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Java and Scripting Development
Message-ID: <f9688a930609291545t3ed20605rd97f35f3ede0b37b@mail.gmail.com>

Good evening everyone,

I was recently made aware of a permanent hire Java Developer position that
is available here in the Grand Rapids area.  If you are interested in
learning more about this position, please let me know.

If you are interested in learning more about the position, please let me
know.

Thanks
Carlus Henry
carlushenry@gmail.com
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From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Nov  6 22:48:50 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Nov  6 22:48:55 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] server, mailing lists restored
Message-ID: <45500222.409@brondsema.net>


After some trouble with the gr-jug.org server, we restaged the machine.
 It took some time, but everything should be functional again.  (Thanks,
Matt, for doing the majority of work on this)

Last month's presentation was postponed, due to the server downtime and
so it can be even better this month!


-- =

Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
               <><

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From dan at envoisolutions.com  Tue Nov  7 03:50:34 2006
From: dan at envoisolutions.com (Dan Diephouse)
Date: Tue Nov  7 03:50:49 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] server, mailing lists restored
In-Reply-To: <45500222.409@brondsema.net>
References: <45500222.409@brondsema.net>
Message-ID: <455048DA.2080307@envoisolutions.com>

Yay - way to go Matt & Dave.

Surely with twice the time in between it will be twice as good! ;-)

- Dan

Dave Brondsema wrote:

>After some trouble with the gr-jug.org server, we restaged the machine.
> It took some time, but everything should be functional again.  (Thanks,
>Matt, for doing the majority of work on this)
>
>Last month's presentation was postponed, due to the server downtime and
>so it can be even better this month!
>
>
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Jug mailing list
>Jug@gr-jug.org
>Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>  
>


-- 
Dan Diephouse
(616) 971-2053
Envoi Solutions LLC
http://netzooid.com

From dave at brondsema.net  Tue Nov  7 07:32:29 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Tue Nov  7 07:32:39 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meeting NEXT week: Easy Ajax with DWR
Message-ID: <45507CDD.1050902@brondsema.net>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, Nov 14
  One week EARLY due to THANKSGIVING
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Easy Ajax with DWR"
Presented by Kyle Adams

Behind all the buzz, Ajax represents a way to truly improve the
usability of your web applications. The Direct Web Remoting (DWR)
library provides an easy way to get started with Ajax in the Java world.
This session ditches the slides and gets right into the interesting
stuff--living, breathing code for working with DWR and Ajax.


A Call for Presentations!!  We don't have any more presentations
scheduled.  If you'd like to share something Java-related, please
volunteer to do so.

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From dave at brondsema.net  Wed Nov  8 23:16:10 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Wed Nov  8 23:16:22 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] [job] two java jobs from a recruiter
Message-ID: <4552AB8A.8080705@brondsema.net>

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From flanderb at gmail.com  Mon Nov 13 11:32:34 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Mon Nov 13 11:32:33 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] GPL Java
Message-ID: <e8898d550611130832w66011f9et684061bccb9b380f@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=43046

Good news for using java with Ubuntu, this means that I won't have to
jump through (albeit very easy) hoops to install java.

What other possibilities does this lead to?  Good and bad.

Good - Faster fixes to Java bugs and performance issues?
Reality - Are there people out there with the resources and time to
wade into the java source and make the necessary changes that are not
already employed by sun?  Is anyone here planning on trying?  Will Sun
accept such patches?

Bad - Split Java implementations.  Is this a possibility?  If Sun
doesn't accept a patch that improves speed dramatically, but only on
Linux, will the developer fork Java and go his own way?  Is this a bad
thing?

Just thinking out loud.
Ben



-- 
Share and Enjoy
From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Nov 13 12:55:17 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Nov 13 12:55:26 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Meeting tomorrow: Easy Ajax with DWR
Message-ID: <4558B185.4030207@brondsema.net>

http://gr-jug.org/

Tue, Nov 14
  One week EARLY due to THANKSGIVING
Networking at 5:30pm  Presentation begins at 5:45pm

Calvin College's North Hall 253

"Easy Ajax with DWR"
Presented by Kyle Adams

Behind all the buzz, Ajax represents a way to truly improve the
usability of your web applications. The Direct Web Remoting (DWR)
library provides an easy way to get started with Ajax in the Java world.
This session ditches the slides and gets right into the interesting
stuff--living, breathing code for working with DWR and Ajax.


A Call for Presentations!!  We don't have any more presentations
scheduled.  If you'd like to share something Java-related, please
volunteer to do so.

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From carlushenry at sagetech-llc.com  Thu Nov 16 06:59:45 2006
From: carlushenry at sagetech-llc.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Thu Nov 16 06:59:37 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] December Meeting Cancelled...
Message-ID: <f9688a930611160359o60857f42m69e3081291e01d9e@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning everyone,

We have decided to cancel the December meeting due to the holidays.  We will
be starting meeting regularly every second Tuesday starting at 5:30p.m. in
January.

We are still looking for volunteers for presenters.  If there is something
that you are willing to share with the group, please let us know.

Thanks and Happy Holidays
-- =

Carlus Henry
SageTech L.L.C.
295.0149 cell.
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From dave at brondsema.net  Thu Nov 16 07:37:57 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Thu Nov 16 07:38:11 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] December Meeting Cancelled...
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930611160359o60857f42m69e3081291e01d9e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930611160359o60857f42m69e3081291e01d9e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <455C5BA5.3040404@brondsema.net>

Carlus Henry wrote:
> Good morning everyone,
> =

> We have decided to cancel the December meeting due to the holidays.  We
> will be starting meeting regularly every second Tuesday starting at
> 5:30p.m. in January.

every third Tuesday, actually.  We did the second tuesday this month due
to Thanksgiving

> =

> We are still looking for volunteers for presenters.  If there is
> something that you are willing to share with the group, please let us kno=
w.
> =

> Thanks and Happy Holidays
> -- =

> Carlus Henry
> SageTech L.L.C.
> 295.0149 cell.
> =

> =

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> =

> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug


-- =

Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
               <><

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From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 07:50:30 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri Nov 24 07:50:19 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Netbeans
Message-ID: <e8898d550611240450v60e7b5fdn80a0a902868f1ed3@mail.gmail.com>

Wow,
It has been a while since I looked into the dark magic of java
programming.  So today I thought I would google some of my favorite
java resources.  I strolled to the Netbeans site, the Eclipse site,
and stumbled upon the Oracle Jdeveloper site (Oracle?  Huh...)

Pretty flabbergasted here. Unless I see it wrong, it seems that
Netbeans has eclipsed Eclipse in terms of features.   Swing gui
creator, jme addin, visual everything creation, profiler!!!, even has
C/C++ add in which was obviously a response to eclipse.

Does anyone use Netbeans?  Why would you use Eclipse instead of
Netbeans?  Any Jdeveloper users out there?  What does that bring to
the table?  It seems some java competition was held and the top three
winners all used Jdeveloper
(http://radio.weblogs.com/0118231/2005/12/15.html#a630).

Just curious.
Ben


-- 
Share and Enjoy
From adamsova at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 12:33:24 2006
From: adamsova at gmail.com (Adam Sova)
Date: Fri Nov 24 12:33:14 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Netbeans
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550611240450v60e7b5fdn80a0a902868f1ed3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550611240450v60e7b5fdn80a0a902868f1ed3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4984bc870611240933j181fbf34pb7ceaaaa13cecc4@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Ben,

I am currently working on a project that is build on the Netbeans platform,
and thereofre the majority of the team has been delveping using the Netbeans
IDE.  As you know, I'm a long time Eclipse user, so I'll try not to be too
biased.  I have not used JDeveloper, so I can't comment on that particular
IDE.

Netbeans does have a ton of features right out of the box and their Matisse
builder is extemely nice.  I haven't used it yet, but I understand that
there J2EE features are pretty good too.  (Here it comes) However, I would
definitely not say that Netbeans has eclipsed Eclipse :o).

Netbeans performance seems to be a little sluggish.  I don't like to wait
for things like code insight and auto-completion, and when I fix an error, I
want it to disappear quickly.  I know this may seem a little picky, but
that's how I code.

The biggest thing that I see that Netbeans is lacking is navigation and
shortcuts.  Maybe it's just because I'm not used to Netbeans or because I
can't find a good way to setup my shortcuts, but with Eclipse, I can find
any class or resource file that I want to as quickly as I can type.  I can
also find and be at any method within a class in a heartbeat.

There's more that I can say, but basically what it boils down to is that
Netbeans is just too sluggish for me and I can't navigate around as quickly
as I want to.  They are definitely bridging the gap though.  Besides, since
when is VI not good enough?

Adam

On 11/24/06, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow,
> It has been a while since I looked into the dark magic of java
> programming.  So today I thought I would google some of my favorite
> java resources.  I strolled to the Netbeans site, the Eclipse site,
> and stumbled upon the Oracle Jdeveloper site (Oracle?  Huh...)
>
> Pretty flabbergasted here. Unless I see it wrong, it seems that
> Netbeans has eclipsed Eclipse in terms of features.   Swing gui
> creator, jme addin, visual everything creation, profiler!!!, even has
> C/C++ add in which was obviously a response to eclipse.
>
> Does anyone use Netbeans?  Why would you use Eclipse instead of
> Netbeans?  Any Jdeveloper users out there?  What does that bring to
> the table?  It seems some java competition was held and the top three
> winners all used Jdeveloper
> (http://radio.weblogs.com/0118231/2005/12/15.html#a630).
>
> Just curious.
> Ben
>
>
> --
> Share and Enjoy
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
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From johntobasco at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 24 21:30:16 2006
From: johntobasco at hotmail.com (John Tobasco)
Date: Fri Nov 24 21:30:11 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Netbeans
Message-ID: <BAY135-F602B3E62AFAE6D04CA318ABE00@phx.gbl>

Hi all,

I don't know much about Netbeans.  But my vote is for eclipse. :-))

We've been using eclipse for several years for Java development (probably 
since shortly after its inception).  I find it really easy to use.  I think 
it really speeds up development.  I especially like its refactoring and 
search capabilities.  And the JUnit functionality is great too.  I work with 
people scattered around the US, a couple in Brazil, and a few in India.  All 
of them use eclipse for their Java development.  Eclipse has become quite a 
standard around the world.

We don't use it just for Java development.  A few people on my team are 
using it for developing AJAX applications (javascript, xml, etc...)

I just did a quick search and found this, "Evans Data is reporting in its 
2006 Annual Eclipse Global Enterprise Survey Research Findings that 60 
percent of respondents indicated they used Eclipse as their primary IDE 
(define), up from 32 percent in 2005."  Rest of the story at 
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3630071

John Tobasco

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Adam Sova" <adamsova@gmail.com>
Reply-To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
Subject: Re: [GR-Jug] Netbeans
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:33:24 -0500

Hey Ben,

I am currently working on a project that is build on the Netbeans platform,
and thereofre the majority of the team has been delveping using the Netbeans
IDE.  As you know, I'm a long time Eclipse user, so I'll try not to be too
biased.  I have not used JDeveloper, so I can't comment on that particular
IDE.

Netbeans does have a ton of features right out of the box and their Matisse
builder is extemely nice.  I haven't used it yet, but I understand that
there J2EE features are pretty good too.  (Here it comes) However, I would
definitely not say that Netbeans has eclipsed Eclipse :o).

Netbeans performance seems to be a little sluggish.  I don't like to wait
for things like code insight and auto-completion, and when I fix an error, I
want it to disappear quickly.  I know this may seem a little picky, but
that's how I code.

The biggest thing that I see that Netbeans is lacking is navigation and
shortcuts.  Maybe it's just because I'm not used to Netbeans or because I
can't find a good way to setup my shortcuts, but with Eclipse, I can find
any class or resource file that I want to as quickly as I can type.  I can
also find and be at any method within a class in a heartbeat.

There's more that I can say, but basically what it boils down to is that
Netbeans is just too sluggish for me and I can't navigate around as quickly
as I want to.  They are definitely bridging the gap though.  Besides, since
when is VI not good enough?

Adam

On 11/24/06, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Wow,
>It has been a while since I looked into the dark magic of java
>programming.  So today I thought I would google some of my favorite
>java resources.  I strolled to the Netbeans site, the Eclipse site,
>and stumbled upon the Oracle Jdeveloper site (Oracle?  Huh...)
>
>Pretty flabbergasted here. Unless I see it wrong, it seems that
>Netbeans has eclipsed Eclipse in terms of features.   Swing gui
>creator, jme addin, visual everything creation, profiler!!!, even has
>C/C++ add in which was obviously a response to eclipse.
>
>Does anyone use Netbeans?  Why would you use Eclipse instead of
>Netbeans?  Any Jdeveloper users out there?  What does that bring to
>the table?  It seems some java competition was held and the top three
>winners all used Jdeveloper
>(http://radio.weblogs.com/0118231/2005/12/15.html#a630).
>
>Just curious.
>Ben
>
>
>--
>Share and Enjoy
>_______________________________________________
>Jug mailing list
>Jug@gr-jug.org
>Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>


_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

_________________________________________________________________
Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces 
friends module. 
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From adamsova at gmail.com  Sat Nov 25 10:28:25 2006
From: adamsova at gmail.com (Adam Sova)
Date: Sat Nov 25 10:28:15 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Netbeans
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-F602B3E62AFAE6D04CA318ABE00@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY135-F602B3E62AFAE6D04CA318ABE00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4984bc870611250728s705bef11gc1c2702825fb3b53@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

I just had one more comment about Netbeans after reading John's response.
Eclipse will recognize JUnit test cases with class names defined as either
TestSomeClass or SomeClassTest.  Netbeans will only recognize one or the
other, I can't remember which one it is.  We had to rename a bunch of unit
tests so that Netbeans would pick them up.  Nit-picky, I know, but it's all
about productivity, isn't it?

That's all.

Adam

On 11/24/06, John Tobasco <johntobasco@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I don't know much about Netbeans.  But my vote is for eclipse. :-))
>
> We've been using eclipse for several years for Java development (probably
> since shortly after its inception).  I find it really easy to use.  I
> think
> it really speeds up development.  I especially like its refactoring and
> search capabilities.  And the JUnit functionality is great too.  I work
> with
> people scattered around the US, a couple in Brazil, and a few in
> India.  All
> of them use eclipse for their Java development.  Eclipse has become quite
> a
> standard around the world.
>
> We don't use it just for Java development.  A few people on my team are
> using it for developing AJAX applications (javascript, xml, etc...)
>
> I just did a quick search and found this, "Evans Data is reporting in its
> 2006 Annual Eclipse Global Enterprise Survey Research Findings that 60
> percent of respondents indicated they used Eclipse as their primary IDE
> (define), up from 32 percent in 2005."  Rest of the story at
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3630071
>
> John Tobasco
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Adam Sova" <adamsova@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
> To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
> Subject: Re: [GR-Jug] Netbeans
> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:33:24 -0500
>
> Hey Ben,
>
> I am currently working on a project that is build on the Netbeans
> platform,
> and thereofre the majority of the team has been delveping using the
> Netbeans
> IDE.  As you know, I'm a long time Eclipse user, so I'll try not to be too
> biased.  I have not used JDeveloper, so I can't comment on that particular
> IDE.
>
> Netbeans does have a ton of features right out of the box and their
> Matisse
> builder is extemely nice.  I haven't used it yet, but I understand that
> there J2EE features are pretty good too.  (Here it comes) However, I would
> definitely not say that Netbeans has eclipsed Eclipse :o).
>
> Netbeans performance seems to be a little sluggish.  I don't like to wait
> for things like code insight and auto-completion, and when I fix an error,
> I
> want it to disappear quickly.  I know this may seem a little picky, but
> that's how I code.
>
> The biggest thing that I see that Netbeans is lacking is navigation and
> shortcuts.  Maybe it's just because I'm not used to Netbeans or because I
> can't find a good way to setup my shortcuts, but with Eclipse, I can find
> any class or resource file that I want to as quickly as I can type.  I can
> also find and be at any method within a class in a heartbeat.
>
> There's more that I can say, but basically what it boils down to is that
> Netbeans is just too sluggish for me and I can't navigate around as
> quickly
> as I want to.  They are definitely bridging the gap though.  Besides,
> since
> when is VI not good enough?
>
> Adam
>
> On 11/24/06, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Wow,
> >It has been a while since I looked into the dark magic of java
> >programming.  So today I thought I would google some of my favorite
> >java resources.  I strolled to the Netbeans site, the Eclipse site,
> >and stumbled upon the Oracle Jdeveloper site (Oracle?  Huh...)
> >
> >Pretty flabbergasted here. Unless I see it wrong, it seems that
> >Netbeans has eclipsed Eclipse in terms of features.   Swing gui
> >creator, jme addin, visual everything creation, profiler!!!, even has
> >C/C++ add in which was obviously a response to eclipse.
> >
> >Does anyone use Netbeans?  Why would you use Eclipse instead of
> >Netbeans?  Any Jdeveloper users out there?  What does that bring to
> >the table?  It seems some java competition was held and the top three
> >winners all used Jdeveloper
> >(http://radio.weblogs.com/0118231/2005/12/15.html#a630).
> >
> >Just curious.
> >Ben
> >
> >
> >--
> >Share and Enjoy
> >_______________________________________________
> >Jug mailing list
> >Jug@gr-jug.org
> >Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
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>
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From carlushenry at sagetech-llc.com  Sun Dec 10 21:45:32 2006
From: carlushenry at sagetech-llc.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Sun Dec 10 21:45:18 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
Message-ID: <f9688a930612101845w7ff0e5b3tb8fba00bcd07d9a6@mail.gmail.com>

Ben recently made a  post on this mailing list regarding getting back into
the Java world, and choosing which IDE to use.  My vote is definitely
Eclipse, but it is not because of the laundry list of features it has,
instead it is because it is the tool that I am most familiar with.  I have
worked with Eclipse for years now, and I know just about all of the
short-cut keys that there are to know in the tool.  Because of this, my
productivity has soared.  To flip to a new IDE at this point would really
slow me down.

More important than the IDE used for Java Development is Spring.  Spring is
the cat's meow, best thing since sliced bread....If you have not had
experience with Spring, whether you have been developing in Java for years,
or are brand new to Java, I would highly recommend taking a look at Spring.
I have been working with Spring for the past couple of years, and I am still
learning more and more about it each day.

I recently did a presentation on Test Driven Development.  In order to
prepare for this presentation, I had asked people that were planning to
attend, what topics do they want me to cover.  The infamous question, "How
do you test DAO's (Data Access Objects)" came up.  I have had experience
with testing DAO's in the past, but I wanted to investigate some of the
things that I have heard about regarding testing DAOs using Spring.  What I
found was the most elegant solution to testing DAOs that I have ever seen.
Using Spring's AbstractTransactionalDataSourceSpringContextTest, it will
automatically do a rollback of every statement that you make in the test.
So feel free to create, update, delete records in the database and don't
worry about affecting your data, because after each test case, your commits
will automatically be rolled back.  Of course, the same could be
accomplished using some homegrown way of doing this, but this is just one of
the many gems that Spring offers.

If you have not had any experience with Spring, please take my advice and
give it some attention.  It will change the way that you program.

-- =

Carlus Henry
SageTech L.L.C.
www.sagetech-llc.com
295.0149 cell.
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From flanderb at gmail.com  Mon Dec 11 09:00:03 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Mon Dec 11 08:59:47 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <f9688a930612101845w7ff0e5b3tb8fba00bcd07d9a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930612101845w7ff0e5b3tb8fba00bcd07d9a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>

AbstractTransactionalDataSourceSpringContextTest?

This is the longest name I have ever seen.  Are you expected to
remember this, or just use an IDE where it completes or has an easy
method search?

Just wondering.


On 12/10/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@sagetech-llc.com> wrote:
> Ben recently made a  post on this mailing list regarding getting back into
> the Java world, and choosing which IDE to use.  My vote is definitely
> Eclipse, but it is not because of the laundry list of features it has,
> instead it is because it is the tool that I am most familiar with.  I have
> worked with Eclipse for years now, and I know just about all of the
> short-cut keys that there are to know in the tool.  Because of this, my
> productivity has soared.  To flip to a new IDE at this point would really
> slow me down.
>
> More important than the IDE used for Java Development is Spring.  Spring is
> the cat's meow, best thing since sliced bread....If you have not had
> experience with Spring, whether you have been developing in Java for years,
> or are brand new to Java, I would highly recommend taking a look at Spring.
> I have been working with Spring for the past couple of years, and I am still
> learning more and more about it each day.
>
> I recently did a presentation on Test Driven Development.  In order to
> prepare for this presentation, I had asked people that were planning to
> attend, what topics do they want me to cover.  The infamous question, "How
> do you test DAO's (Data Access Objects)" came up.  I have had experience
> with testing DAO's in the past, but I wanted to investigate some of the
> things that I have heard about regarding testing DAOs using Spring.  What I
> found was the most elegant solution to testing DAOs that I have ever seen.
> Using Spring's
> AbstractTransactionalDataSourceSpringContextTest, it will
> automatically do a rollback of every statement that you make in the test.
> So feel free to create, update, delete records in the database and don't
> worry about affecting your data, because after each test case, your commits
> will automatically be rolled back.  Of course, the same could be
> accomplished using some homegrown way of doing this, but this is just one of
> the many gems that Spring offers.
>
> If you have not had any experience with Spring, please take my advice and
> give it some attention.  It will change the way that you program.
>
> --
> Carlus Henry
> SageTech L.L.C.
>  www.sagetech-llc.com
> 295.0149 cell.
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize
> http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
>
>


-- 
Share and Enjoy
From adamsova at gmail.com  Mon Dec 11 10:12:28 2006
From: adamsova at gmail.com (Adam Sova)
Date: Mon Dec 11 10:12:22 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930612101845w7ff0e5b3tb8fba00bcd07d9a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4984bc870612110712j9f92acai75b8a212458e65fc@mail.gmail.com>

Once you use it, you'll remember it without the IDE.  It really comes in
handy.

Adam

On 12/11/06, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> AbstractTransactionalDataSourceSpringContextTest?
>
> This is the longest name I have ever seen.  Are you expected to
> remember this, or just use an IDE where it completes or has an easy
> method search?
>
> Just wondering.
>
>
> On 12/10/06, Carlus Henry <carlushenry@sagetech-llc.com> wrote:
> > Ben recently made a  post on this mailing list regarding getting back
> into
> > the Java world, and choosing which IDE to use.  My vote is definitely
> > Eclipse, but it is not because of the laundry list of features it has,
> > instead it is because it is the tool that I am most familiar with.  I
> have
> > worked with Eclipse for years now, and I know just about all of the
> > short-cut keys that there are to know in the tool.  Because of this, my
> > productivity has soared.  To flip to a new IDE at this point would
> really
> > slow me down.
> >
> > More important than the IDE used for Java Development is Spring.  Spring
> is
> > the cat's meow, best thing since sliced bread....If you have not had
> > experience with Spring, whether you have been developing in Java for
> years,
> > or are brand new to Java, I would highly recommend taking a look at
> Spring.
> > I have been working with Spring for the past couple of years, and I am
> still
> > learning more and more about it each day.
> >
> > I recently did a presentation on Test Driven Development.  In order to
> > prepare for this presentation, I had asked people that were planning to
> > attend, what topics do they want me to cover.  The infamous question,
> "How
> > do you test DAO's (Data Access Objects)" came up.  I have had experience
> > with testing DAO's in the past, but I wanted to investigate some of the
> > things that I have heard about regarding testing DAOs using
> Spring.  What I
> > found was the most elegant solution to testing DAOs that I have ever
> seen.
> > Using Spring's
> > AbstractTransactionalDataSourceSpringContextTest, it will
> > automatically do a rollback of every statement that you make in the
> test.
> > So feel free to create, update, delete records in the database and don't
> > worry about affecting your data, because after each test case, your
> commits
> > will automatically be rolled back.  Of course, the same could be
> > accomplished using some homegrown way of doing this, but this is just
> one of
> > the many gems that Spring offers.
> >
> > If you have not had any experience with Spring, please take my advice
> and
> > give it some attention.  It will change the way that you program.
> >
> > --
> > Carlus Henry
> > SageTech L.L.C.
> >  www.sagetech-llc.com
> > 295.0149 cell.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jug mailing list
> > Jug@gr-jug.org
> > Un/Subscribe/Customize
> > http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Share and Enjoy
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
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From kadams at gfs.com  Mon Dec 11 14:30:56 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Mon Dec 11 14:30:44 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930612101845w7ff0e5b3tb8fba00bcd07d9a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <457D6BA0.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

> Are you expected to remember this, or just use an IDE where it
completes or has an easy method search? <

There is a way supported by even the most basic text editors:
copy-n-paste :-)

Kyle A.

From kadams at gfs.com  Mon Dec 11 14:56:31 2006
From: kadams at gfs.com (Kyle Adams)
Date: Mon Dec 11 14:56:21 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9688a930612101845w7ff0e5b3tb8fba00bcd07d9a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <457D719F.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>

I should also note that the easiest way I've seen of dealing with the
long name is to handle it with inheritance.  The projects that I'm
currently working on have a BaseDAOTest.java:

package com.foobar;

import
org.springframework.test.AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests;

public class BaseDAOTest extends
AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests {
    protected String[] getConfigLocations() {
        setAutowireMode(AUTOWIRE_BY_NAME);
        return new String[] {"*Context.xml"};
    }
}

Assuming you follow a naming standard of always suffixing your Spring
config files with "Context.xml", this makes it as easy as extending
BaseDAOTest (much shorter) to get your DAO unit tests up and running.

Kyle A.
From flanderb at gmail.com  Mon Dec 11 14:59:36 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Mon Dec 11 14:59:17 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <457D6BA0.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
References: <f9688a930612101845w7ff0e5b3tb8fba00bcd07d9a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550612110600h604bc4dbq850438a169ebf0ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<457D6BA0.6F65.0052.0@gfs.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550612111159h168ee7dcq6eb2ff8adbc45185@mail.gmail.com>

Your are absolutely correct. I even prefer these descriptive names
because you know exactly what it does.  It is much better for reading
than abTraDSSprCon or whatever else you could use.

Writing this on the other hand, especially for someone (me) who is not
a proficient typist, could take a very long time, and lead to a lot of
errors.  An IDE with "method checking" underlining errors would make
this point moot. Well, I guess the error log will tell you exactly
what is wrong when you try to compile it as well.

Anyway, "Oh my goodness" was my fist reaction to that name.


On 12/11/06, Kyle Adams <kadams@gfs.com> wrote:
> > Are you expected to remember this, or just use an IDE where it
> completes or has an easy method search? <
>
> There is a way supported by even the most basic text editors:
> copy-n-paste :-)
>
> Kyle A.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>


-- 
Share and Enjoy
From ikuoikuo at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 11 18:06:12 2006
From: ikuoikuo at yahoo.com (I-Lin Kuo)
Date: Mon Dec 11 18:05:53 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550612111159h168ee7dcq6eb2ff8adbc45185@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <362927.95230.qm@web38215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Eclipse 3.2 has an especially smart autocompletion.
For the class
AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests, if you
start typing just the capital letters ADIS and hit
ctrl-space, it will list
AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests as one
of the autocomplete options (if you've already
imported it).

Using ctrl-shift-T (windows) and typing ADIS has a
similar effect.

--- Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com> wrote:
...
> Writing this on the other hand, especially for
> someone (me) who is not
> a proficient typist, could take a very long time,
> and lead to a lot of
> errors.  An IDE with "method checking" underlining
> errors would make
> this point moot. Well, I guess the error log will
> tell you exactly
> what is wrong when you try to compile it as well.
> 


I-Lin Kuo, Ann Arbor, MI 
Macromedia Certified ColdFusion 5.0 Advanced Developer 
Sun Certified Java 2 Programmer 
Ann Arbor Java User Users Group (www.aajug.org) SUN Top 25 JUG


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From flanderb at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 11:04:11 2006
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Tue Dec 12 11:04:00 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Interesting project
Message-ID: <e8898d550612120804i43b1408ey153238dd1f2df304@mail.gmail.com>

This just came across the wire of Ajaxian.  http://thinwire.com/ Seems
to be an ide for web based interfaces.  They just went lgpl last
Friday.  I haven't looked into it at all (just saw it, at work ...)
but I thought you all might be interested.

-- 
Share and Enjoy
From johntobasco at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 12 21:36:02 2006
From: johntobasco at hotmail.com (John Tobasco)
Date: Tue Dec 12 21:35:47 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <362927.95230.qm@web38215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-F15A76728B0C34153B008F8ABD60@phx.gbl>

Cool.  I've used the cntl-space thing a ton.  But haven't tried the caps.  
Thanks for the tip.

John Tobasco

----Original Message Follows----
From: I-Lin Kuo <ikuoikuo@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
Subject: Re: [GR-Jug] Spring
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:06:12 -0800 (PST)

Eclipse 3.2 has an especially smart autocompletion.
For the class
AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests, if you
start typing just the capital letters ADIS and hit
ctrl-space, it will list
AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests as one
of the autocomplete options (if you've already
imported it).

Using ctrl-shift-T (windows) and typing ADIS has a
similar effect.

--- Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com> wrote:
...
 > Writing this on the other hand, especially for
 > someone (me) who is not
 > a proficient typist, could take a very long time,
 > and lead to a lot of
 > errors.  An IDE with "method checking" underlining
 > errors would make
 > this point moot. Well, I guess the error log will
 > tell you exactly
 > what is wrong when you try to compile it as well.
 >


I-Lin Kuo, Ann Arbor, MI
Macromedia Certified ColdFusion 5.0 Advanced Developer
Sun Certified Java 2 Programmer
Ann Arbor Java User Users Group (www.aajug.org) SUN Top 25 JUG


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug

_________________________________________________________________
Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends 
list. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk

From carlushenry at sagetech-llc.com  Wed Dec 13 08:28:03 2006
From: carlushenry at sagetech-llc.com (Carlus Henry)
Date: Wed Dec 13 08:27:49 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Spring
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-F15A76728B0C34153B008F8ABD60@phx.gbl>
References: <362927.95230.qm@web38215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY135-F15A76728B0C34153B008F8ABD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <f9688a930612130528k5afbc194sbc74d9e6b1d7720c@mail.gmail.com>

Here are some more little shortcuts that I can not live without:

Shift+Ctrl+T
- searches for any Java object.  No more traversing trees to find the object
you are looking for

Shift+Ctrl+R
- searches for any file in your project, not just limited to Java objects

Ctrl+1 (number one)
- this does a lot of stuff.  I primarily use it for fixing errors

Ctrl+Alt+H
- call type hiearchy.  Select a method and then punch in this shortcut and
it will show you all of the places where that method is called.  Then it
will show you all of the places that the calling method is called.....it is
a call type hiearchy

Ctrl+Shift+G
- This will show you all of the places that the method is called.  Will not
do the call type hiearchy

Alt+Shift+S, R
- this is a funky combo that quickly lets you set bean getters and setters.

Alt+Shift+X, T
- this will bring up the run menu.  The T is for running a junit test.  You
do write tests, don't you :)

Alt+Shift+R
- highlight a method or an object name, and this will allow you to rename
it.

Ctrl+Shift+O (letter o)
- this will optimize imports....

Does it really matter what IDE you use.....NO.  Just as long you are using
the tool that you are the most efficient and productive in.  The shortcuts
that I have shared are all from memory.  I don't even have an eclipse
session up and running to test them out.  (Which also means that they could
be very wrong...hehehe) Over the years, I have added these shortcuts into my
daily work routine...and I am still picking up more.

Hope these help someone.

Carlus


On 12/12/06, John Tobasco <johntobasco@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Cool.  I've used the cntl-space thing a ton.  But haven't tried the caps.
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> John Tobasco
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: I-Lin Kuo <ikuoikuo@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
> To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
> Subject: Re: [GR-Jug] Spring
> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:06:12 -0800 (PST)
>
> Eclipse 3.2 has an especially smart autocompletion.
> For the class
> AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests, if you
> start typing just the capital letters ADIS and hit
> ctrl-space, it will list
> AbstractDependencyInjectionSpringContextTests as one
> of the autocomplete options (if you've already
> imported it).
>
> Using ctrl-shift-T (windows) and typing ADIS has a
> similar effect.
>
> --- Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> > Writing this on the other hand, especially for
> > someone (me) who is not
> > a proficient typist, could take a very long time,
> > and lead to a lot of
> > errors.  An IDE with "method checking" underlining
> > errors would make
> > this point moot. Well, I guess the error log will
> > tell you exactly
> > what is wrong when you try to compile it as well.
> >
>
>
> I-Lin Kuo, Ann Arbor, MI
> Macromedia Certified ColdFusion 5.0 Advanced Developer
> Sun Certified Java 2 Programmer
> Ann Arbor Java User Users Group (www.aajug.org) SUN Top 25 JUG
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
> list.
>
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=3Dhttp:=
//spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=3Dcreate&wx_url=3D/friends.aspx&=
mk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jug mailing list
> Jug@gr-jug.org
> Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
>



-- =

Carlus Henry
SageTech L.L.C.
www.sagetech-llc.com
295.0149 cell.
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From derekvre at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 14 08:50:07 2006
From: derekvre at hotmail.com (Derek Vredevoogd)
Date: Thu Dec 14 08:49:52 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Interesting project
Message-ID: <BAY123-F30800984E486656290AE32D3D50@phx.gbl>

that is a very interesting project.
What is the word on this.
Are their other projects similiar.
Is this going to become mainstreem?

How about struts integration?

Derek.

From: "Benjamin Flanders" <flanderb@gmail.com>
Reply-To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
To: GR-JUG <jug@gr-jug.org>
Subject: [GR-Jug] Interesting project
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:04:11 -0500

This just came across the wire of Ajaxian.  http://thinwire.com/ Seems
to be an ide for web based interfaces.  They just went lgpl last
Friday.  I haven't looked into it at all (just saw it, at work ...)
but I thought you all might be interested.

--
Share and Enjoy
_______________________________________________
Jug mailing list
Jug@gr-jug.org
Un/Subscribe/Customize http://gr-jug.org/mailman/listinfo/jug
	Benjamin Flanders <flanderb@gmail.com>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Amor: busca tu ? naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/

From dave at brondsema.net  Mon Dec 18 11:05:39 2006
From: dave at brondsema.net (Dave Brondsema)
Date: Mon Dec 18 11:05:25 2006
Subject: [GR-Jug] Anyone going to CodeMash conference?
Message-ID: <4586BC53.3090708@brondsema.net>

https://www.codemash.org/ January 18-19, 2007 in Sandusky, Ohio

Early bird pricing ends today, and looks like they have a pretty good
session lineup for a decent price.

I'm going to go.  Anyone interested in carpooling?

-- =

Dave Brondsema
Software Developer
Cornerstone University

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